========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:32:08 -0500 Reply-To: klumperk@boystown.org Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: KandaceK Subject: eBooks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From a previous post--- >>Also, Brass charges that current e-book products, notably Rocketbook and >>Softbook, are too expensive for the average >>consumer and don't appeal to a broad audience. I have one the Rocketbooks and I love it! I can snuggle up in bed and read = again, without feeling guilty about how many trees I destroyed that day. Th= is software Microsoft is coming out with sounds good, but don't look for me= to give up my electronic paperback any time soon. Kandy ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:14:26 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Subject: Re: I'm Home In-Reply-To: <19990830.211355.-116765.2.Jean1@juno.com> from "Jean Lorrah" at Aug 30, 99 09:11:54 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah scripsit: > Didn't help that after we taxied out to the runway in Detroit, we had to > go back to the terminal because a flight attendant's jump seat was > broken. We sat there, they brought a mechanic aboard...and he taped it > up with duct tape! I kid you not! We were an hour late so the blasted > seat could be taped up with what holds the universe together--I watched > him do it. I'm sorry that happened to you. But it isn't the duct tape that's the issue, it's the *mechanic*. Letting anybody but a certified airplane mechanic --- certified for that variant of airplane --- touch the plane could invalidate the Certificate of Airworthiness, and then you'd all have had to go back to the terminal and get on *another plane*. Far worse. I admit this is annoying, but having uncertified people mess with airplanes would be a disaster waiting to happen. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org I am a member of a civilization. --David Brin ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:14:55 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jeff Hall Subject: Re: eBooks KandaceK wrote: > >From a previous post--- > > >>Also, Brass charges that current e-book products, notably Rocketbook and > >>Softbook, are too expensive for the average > >>consumer and don't appeal to a broad audience. > > I have one the Rocketbooks and I love it! I can snuggle up in bed and read again, without feeling guilty about how many trees I destroyed that day. This software Microsoft is coming out with sounds good, but don't look for me to give up my electronic paperback any time soon. > > Kandy Call me an old prude but I will have a problem with the "E-books" I have always enjoyed the feel of a book in my hand and the feel of pages being turned. In my home, I have over 6,000 "old friends" I just can't seem to get rid of. Although electronic storage does have an appeal for me (and even more for my wife!) I just don't know if I can "make the leap" to e-books. Oh well, only time will tell. Oh by the way, welcome home all you wayward travelers........ Jeff ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:40:12 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jeff Hall Subject: SimeGen web ring To those folks that currently have a SimeGen webring: Sorry I made major blunder. If you be so kind to change the following links on your web ring to the following: This is what you have now: Want to join < FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE=2>Virtual Tecton: The Sime~Gen Webring?
This is what is should read: Want to join Virtual Tecton: The Sime~Gen Webring?
Just cut and paste the url to the location of the old one, that way shadow rat doesn't have to host the page that we already have on s/g. I really apologize for the confusion and have probably forgotten something else but will let you know if I do... Thanks for your patience while I am learning Jeff P.S. Thanks Marge :] ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:17:38 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 30 Aug 1999 to 31 Aug 1999 (#1999-236) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ann Marie It was fun to meet you the other night! :) I hope your drive home was uneventful and peaceful. Jean >you? Oh, lord, what a pain and what a silly thing to make you wait on! I'm glad you're home safe. I hope you get a really good rest. "Your character is your fate.' ....Phil Ochs, 1973, writing about Richard Nixon Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com Please do not send unsolicited attachments. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:26:08 -0700 Reply-To: Don Jaramillo Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Don Jaramillo Subject: AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't realize, but apparently, while I was at NASFiC, my Rathorite@geocities.com account expired!!! I delayed switching it over to Yahoo as long as possible and waited too long. Now I've missed all of the mail! :-( The last thing I got was Jean Lorrah's "Linux Use Growing" message on the 22nd. I guess I should move my ddraig address to full mail and just abandon the geocities one. Don ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:55:55 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Don Jaramillo Subject: Re: worldcon is in town MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Dancer To: Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 2:58 PM Subject: Re: worldcon is in town > ladyblue wrote: > > > > If worldcon is not over today (as seems likely since it's Sunday and these > > things are mostly over Sunday) -- > > > > AFAIK it hasn't started yet. > > D I expect that this was a confusion between Worldcon (AussieCon III, starting Wednesday), and NASFiC (Conucopia, which ended yesterday). :-) Follow Your Bliss!! Don ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 05:42:45 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Netdancer Subject: E-Publishing: E-matter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey, all I found this online and it does look quite interesting: A new format for online self-publishing, aimed initially at technical folks but they seem to be encouraging use to spread. http://fatbrain.com/ Kennet ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:12:47 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Gene Evans Subject: Re: What is it about Simes and meat? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like this rationale more than " dead meat zlins funny". There is = also indirect canon support. It's been established that Simes need = dietary elements that Gens find poisonous so their digestive systems = must change to handle their bodies' new requirements. It makes sense = that their altered digestive system will no longer be able to absorb = some foods that they used to enjoy. And every other kid in changeover = seems to throw up, I would assume because they've eaten something that = they can no longer digest. Speaking of digests, is there any way to get this list in a once per = day digest form rather than receiving each message as a separate email? ---------- From: Olson, Ann Marie Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 2:50 PM To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM Subject: Re: What is it about Simes and meat? Hello, > I will try to add a little excitement with a question. Why is it = that > Simes don't eat meat? [AMO] The way I understand it (and I am certainly not a keeper of canon) the inability to deal with meat is a result of an enzyme deficiency. (sorta) This doesn't exactly make a whole lot of sense, as in the later stories = they consume non-meat animal products. I'm not going to challenge = canon on this point, so I simply don't really approach it in the stories I = have written other than a single scene where one of the characters loves = fresh eels (i.e. still wiggling) and the Sime is greatful at least they don't smell like dead meat and the other Gen mentions he really prefers more vegetarian fare ... or at least non-mobile. Ann Marie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. =20 To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:52:27 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Digests (was What is it about Simes and meat?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gene Evans wrote: > > Speaking of digests, is there any way to get this list in a once per day digest form rather than receiving each message as a separate email? Yes. Either email listserv@simegen.com with 'set simegen-l digest', or go to http://www.simegen.com/archives/ and check out the set-your-subscription -options bit. (it's in there somewhere.) (or maybe archive, without the s) Jenn V. (Not as helpful as usual. I'm not a well person right now.) -- "We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor. This is women's work!" Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/ Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:15:40 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Medical Dramas'R'Us MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I've been given the down-check by the doctor. On learning that I'd been working she said (quote): "What the fuck? What the hell were you _thinking_?" She then gave me the 'stern-face' until I agreed to take time off. It's less a matter of physical effort than of stress. I'm _supposed_ to be zero stress, as _well_ as minimal exertion. As far as the diagnosis from the hospital (VVS), she agrees, yes...Probably right. Probably _not_ the core of the problem that I'm having, but probably right. The problem I'm having seems to be something else (as yet undetermined). What it _is_ doing is not supplying enough oxygen to my brain at various times. It can put up with a little of this, but if I want my brain in the same shape that it's been in traditionally, I've got to stop for a bit and keep the consumption less than the somewhat dodgy supply. Low oxygen is what's been making me bellicose and irrational and unpleasant the last couple weeks. Still, I can't say that I'm happy with the idea of not working for a week. I'm even less happy with the idea that at the end of that week, I get another slip of paper and orders to continue to do nothing. And this is supposed to be zero-stress, huh? D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:41:25 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Valerie Goldstein Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 29 Aug 1999 to 30 Aug 1999 (#1999-235) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <<< Jean has TWO Zhag~Tonyo stories!!!! Sigh! I couldn't go to the convention < to hear them read. Any news on when/if they'll be published? I have been < on pins and needles ever since I read the first conversation about them that < was posted on the web. < < VAL >> < Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Medical Dramas'R'Us MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:15:40 +1000 Dancer writes: >Well, I've been given the down-check by the doctor. On learning that >I'd >been working she said (quote): "What the fuck? What the hell were you >_thinking_?" > >She then gave me the 'stern-face' until I agreed to take time off. >It's >less a matter of physical effort than of stress. I'm _supposed_ to be >zero stress, as _well_ as minimal exertion. Oh, Dancer. I feel for you and Jenn. Do rest as much as you can, please--it's probably most important just to quit whatever you are doing as soon as you feel the least fatigue. >As far as the diagnosis from the hospital (VVS), she agrees, >yes...Probably right. Probably _not_ the core of the problem that I'm >having, but probably right. The problem I'm having seems to be >something >else (as yet undetermined). Oh, no! Back to uncertainty again. I feel for you and Jenn--that's a horrible situation. As soon as you know what is wrong, you will know what has to be done to fix it. Being told they know, and then being told no, they don't know after all--aarrgh! That's miserable. >What it _is_ doing is not supplying enough oxygen to my brain at >various >times. It can put up with a little of this, but if I want my brain in >the same shape that it's been in traditionally, I've got to stop for >a >bit and keep the consumption less than the somewhat dodgy supply. Low >oxygen is what's been making me bellicose and irrational and >unpleasant >the last couple weeks. You? Bellicose and irrational unpleasant? Not so's anyone would notice. At least there is a temporary fix for the oxygen problem--I assume they sent a tank of it home with you. It's not forever. After surgery to remove a blood clot, when he was already weak from heart problems, my father had to have oxygen available when he came home for several weeks. Eventually he was back on his feet and could send it away. He was in his 80's at the time--you're much younger, and are surely stronger. >Still, I can't say that I'm happy with the idea of not working for a >week. I'm even less happy with the idea that at the end of that week, >I >get another slip of paper and orders to continue to do nothing. Well, your doctor has to know that it would drive _anybody_ crazy to do _nothing_ (I notice you cleverly didn't ask, "May I participate in e-mail?"). I'm sure she would think it's okay to read or watch TV, and for you playing at the computer is the same thing. So play, but don't work. Nothing with deadlines. No physical exertion. No installations of programs that might crash the machine. Hey--you can just surf for the fun of surfing! That's something a lot of us would like to have permission to do: just play around on the computer till we're tired of it, and then take a nap. >And this is supposed to be zero-stress, huh? Don't let it stress you, Dancer. I know Jenn will be watching you carefully--listen to her when she thinks you're overdoing it, and go rest. All my best wishes are with you for a speedy diagnosis and a simple cure. Jean All opinions expressed in this post are my own unless otherwise indicated. Visit my website, http://www.simegen.com/Jean "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:57:48 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jeff Hall Subject: Re: Medical Dramas'R'Us Dancer, Although I am not the most vocal of the group and relatively new to this group, I wish you all the best in your fight to get better. I agree with Jean in that I hope the problem is simple and the cure even simpler. If goodwill could cure people, there has been enough in this group to cure a leper. Dancer, you are lucky person, alot of people really care a great deal for you and want you to take it easy. So my suggestion would be to just to it. Good Luck, Jeff ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:49:13 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jeff Hall Subject: Talk to each other over the net Folks, You folks really need to check this out! You can actually talk to each other over the net WITH NO LONG DISTANCE PHONE CHARGES AT ALL!!!! I just found it and though it would be really cool to check out. Just follow the link I will enclude and talk away. The first time you log on it will d/l some software so don't set your browers security too high. Let me know what you think!!! Jeff http://www.excite.com/communities/chat/voicechat/client/laun ch_vc?room=dragonlov3 ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:55:12 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Talk to each other over the net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Hall wrote: > > Folks, > > You folks really need to check this out! You can > actually talk to each other over the net WITH NO LONG > DISTANCE PHONE CHARGES AT ALL!!!! Just direct or indirect bandwidth charges... Jenn V. (professional technical-wonder sceptic.) -- "We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor. This is women's work!" Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/ Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:00:33 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: ladyblue Subject: Medical Dramas'R'Us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hey, I know it's NOTHING compared to Dancer, but I'm having my gall bladder out next friday. Now I'm off to St. Louis for the weekend. At least I won't gain weight -- I can't eat much!! Later Kate ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:32:20 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Medical Dramas'R'Us MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:00:33 -0500 ladyblue writes: >Hey, I know it's NOTHING compared to Dancer, but I'm having my gall >bladder >out next friday. We'll still be thinking of you, as it's still surgery. Thank goodness the procedure is now much simpler and easier on the patient than it was up to a few years ago. Hope you feel better soon. Jean All opinions expressed in this post are my own unless otherwise indicated. Visit my website, http://www.simegen.com/Jean "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:55:48 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 3 Sep 1999 to 4 Sep 1999 (#1999-240) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ladyblue - >Hey, I know it's NOTHING compared to Dancer, but I'm having my gall bladder >out next friday. Yikes -- don't minimize something like that! Sure, it's not the heart, but it's still important, or they woudln't be doing it! "Your character is your fate.' ....Phil Ochs, 1973, writing about Richard Nixon Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com Please do not send unsolicited attachments. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:19:31 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: 1999 Hugos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Aussiecon Three Reports Hugo Winners Aussiecon Three, the 1999 Worldcon, has announced the following awards presented September 4 in Melbourne, Australia: Best Novel - To Say Nothing of the Dog, by Connie Willis Best Novella - "Oceanic," by Greg Egan Best Novelette - "Taklamakan," by Bruce Sterling Best Short Story - "The Very Pulse of the Machine," by Michael Swanwick Best Related Book - The Dreams Our Stuff is Made Of, by Thomas M. Disch Best Dramatic Presentation - The Truman Show (Paramount) Best Professional Editor - Gardner Dozois (Asimov's) Best Professional Artist - Bob Eggleton Best Semiprozine - Locus, edited by Charles N. Brown Best Fanzine - Ansible, edited By Dave Langford Best Fan Writer - Dave Langford Best Fan Artist - Ian Gunn John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer (not a Hugo - sponsored by Dell Magazines) - Nalo Hopkinson Aussiecon Three continues through September 6 at the Melbourne Convention Centre, Melbourne, Australia. For more information, visit http://www.aussiecon3.worldcon.org/ Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. http://www.simegen.com/Jean "The difference between malice and ignorance is hard to distinguish, and to maintain the desire to distinguish requires the patience of a saint."--John Kessel ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 02:54:13 +0000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: 1999 Hugos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suppose I should be embarrased. I recognise the Truman Show (though the advertising put me off so badly, I have not yet been able to bring myself to see it), and I'm sure I've seen Disch's "The Dreams Our Stuff is Made Of", but not read it. Apart from that, I don't think I've seen, read or heard of anything or anyone in the list. *sigh* D Jean Lorrah wrote: > > Aussiecon Three Reports Hugo Winners > > Aussiecon Three, the 1999 Worldcon, has announced the following > awards presented September 4 in Melbourne, Australia: > > Best Novel - To Say Nothing of the Dog, by Connie Willis > > Best Novella - "Oceanic," by Greg Egan > > Best Novelette - "Taklamakan," by Bruce Sterling > > Best Short Story - "The Very Pulse of the Machine," by Michael > Swanwick > > Best Related Book - The Dreams Our Stuff is Made Of, by Thomas M. > Disch > > Best Dramatic Presentation - The Truman Show (Paramount) > > Best Professional Editor - Gardner Dozois (Asimov's) > > Best Professional Artist - Bob Eggleton > > Best Semiprozine - Locus, edited by Charles N. Brown > > Best Fanzine - Ansible, edited By Dave Langford > > Best Fan Writer - Dave Langford > > Best Fan Artist - Ian Gunn > > John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer (not a Hugo - sponsored > by Dell Magazines) - Nalo Hopkinson > > Aussiecon Three continues through September 6 at the Melbourne > Convention Centre, Melbourne, Australia. For more information, visit > http://www.aussiecon3.worldcon.org/ > > Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. > http://www.simegen.com/Jean > "The difference between malice and ignorance is hard to distinguish, and to > maintain the desire to distinguish requires the patience of a saint."--John > Kessel > > ---------- > You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. > To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to > LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text > "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". > ---------- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 03:09:39 +0000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Medical Dramas'R'Us MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ladyblue wrote: > > Hey, I know it's NOTHING compared to Dancer, but I'm having my gall bladder > out next friday. > > Now I'm off to St. Louis for the weekend. At least I won't gain weight -- > I can't eat much!! Sounds more serious to me. You'll have folks poking around inside you. Maybe I should get a little tap in each arm. I feel like a wine-barrel. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:28:08 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: 1999 Hugos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dancer wrote: > > I suppose I should be embarrased. I recognise the Truman Show (though > the advertising put me off so badly, I have not yet been able to bring > myself to see it), and I'm sure I've seen Disch's "The Dreams Our Stuff > is Made Of", but not read it. Apart from that, I don't think I've seen, > read or heard of anything or anyone in the list. *sigh* We /own/ that book, dear heart. Jenn V. -- "We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor. This is women's work!" Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/ Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 03:58:26 +0000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: 1999 Hugos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Jenn V." wrote: > > Dancer wrote: > > > > I suppose I should be embarrased. I recognise the Truman Show (though > > the advertising put me off so badly, I have not yet been able to bring > > myself to see it), and I'm sure I've seen Disch's "The Dreams Our Stuff > > is Made Of", but not read it. Apart from that, I don't think I've seen, > > read or heard of anything or anyone in the list. *sigh* > > We /own/ that book, dear heart. Ouch. Knew I'd seen it somewhere. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:16:23 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Receiving Digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I set my computer so that I would receive the Sime/Gen list e-mails in digest form while I was on vacation. Yesterday I went back to the website and tried to reset it so that I would receive individual e-mails. I received confirmation that the change was made, but today I received the digest again. What is my next step here? ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:19:07 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Receiving Digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann Partridge wrote: > > I set my computer so that I would receive the Sime/Gen list e-mails in digest > form while I was on vacation. Yesterday I went back to the website and tried > to reset it so that I would receive individual e-mails. I received > confirmation that the change was made, but today I received the digest again. > What is my next step here? When you change from digest to mail-as-they-come, you get one final digest 'in case' you have missed something. Note that a 'day' by the listserv is measured based on Australian time, not US time. So you might set it at night, and get your final digest in the morning. Jenn V. -- "We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor. This is women's work!" Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/ Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:09:52 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 5 Sep 1999 to 6 Sep 1999 (#1999-242) Comments: cc: webmaster@simegen.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/6/99 10:00:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM writes: << When you change from digest to mail-as-they-come, you get one final digest 'in case' you have missed something. Note that a 'day' by the listserv is measured based on Australian time, not US time. So you might set it at night, and get your final digest in the morning. >> Thanks, but this is now the second digest that I have received and I did not get a confirmation copy of the e-mail I sent out, so I think my settings are still wrong. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:25:34 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Fw: Klingon Programmers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a joke I received. --------- Forwarded message ---------- >TOP 12 THINGS LIKELY TO BE OVERHEARD IF YOU HAD A KLINGON PROGRAMMER > >12. "Specifications are for the weak and timid!" > >11. "This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors if I >am to do battle with this code!" > >10. "You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the >original Klingon." > >9. "Indentation?! -- I will show you how to indent when I indent your >skull!" > >8. "What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software >'releases.' Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and >quality assurance people in its wake." > >7. "Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' -- they have >'arguments' -- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM." > >6. "Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the >weak." > >5. "I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth >contest. They will not concern us again." > >4. "A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!" > >3. "By filing this PCR you have challenged the honor of my family. Prepare >to die!" > >2. "You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you >stand!" > >1. "Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship it! Ship >it and let them flee like the dogs they are!" > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:35:34 +0000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Marge Subject: Re: Fw: Klingon Programmers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love this. Will send it to all my favorite programmers Marge Larry P Ulrey wrote: > Here's a joke I received. > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > > >TOP 12 THINGS LIKELY TO BE OVERHEARD IF YOU HAD A KLINGON PROGRAMMER > > > >12. "Specifications are for the weak and timid!" > > > >11. "This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors if > I > >am to do battle with this code!" > > > >10. "You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the > >original Klingon." > > > >9. "Indentation?! -- I will show you how to indent when I indent your > >skull!" > > > >8. "What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software > >'releases.' Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers > and > >quality assurance people in its wake." > > > >7. "Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' -- they have > >'arguments' -- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM." > > > >6. "Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the > >weak." > > > >5. "I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth > >contest. They will not concern us again." > > > >4. "A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!" > > > >3. "By filing this PCR you have challenged the honor of my family. > Prepare > >to die!" > > > >2. "You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you > >stand!" > > > >1. "Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship it! > Ship > >it and let them flee like the dogs they are!" > > > > ---------- > You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. > To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to > LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text > "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". > ---------- -- **************************************************************** webmaster@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com Please allow 3 business days for the fullfillment of requests **************************************************************** ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:12:46 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: ladyblue Subject: Medical Dramas R' Us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dancer wrote: >Maybe I should get a little tap in each arm. I feel like a wine-barrel. >D Hey. mr. wine tap -- the lab lost all the blood samples they drew from me -- I have to go back and do it again. And it was obvious they didn't know what tests they were running because they tried to charge me over $600 for 5 blood tests, which they then wrote off on the same bill. Fortunately (maybe) this has nothing to do with my gall bladder surgery next Friday -- and the tests were ordered by a different doctor for something else entirely, and the lab is NOT at the same hospital where I am having my gall bladder out. Enough of this -- probably boring to all of you -- here's a question for discussion . . . do simes have gall bladders??? Later Kate ***************************************** * "It's Always Something." * * -Roseanne Roseannadanna * * * * Kate Kirk ladyblue@iquest.net * ***************************************** ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:30:47 PDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Darlene Holmes Subject: Re: Fw: Klingon Programmers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Larry P Ulrey > > > >2. "You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you >stand!" > > > >1. "Our users will know fear and cower before our software. Ship it! >Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!" > > I knew it, Bill Gates is a Klingon! Anyone using MSN's Hotmail would have no doubt of that. Thanks for the joke.8-) Darlene ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:36:45 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: If We Haven't Arrived Start The Battle Without Us MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Article from The Courier Mail - 26 Aug 99, written by Peter Wear 'If We Haven't Arrived Start The Battle Without Us' To: The Indonesian Foreign Minister From: The Australian Prime Minister My Dear Dr Alatas, May I thank you, on behalf of the Australian people, for your country's most kind declaration of war, received in my office at 8pm last night. With sincere regret, I must decline your invitation to fight. If you could delay your invasion of our northern coastline until, say, 2015, I'm sure we'd be able to give you a terrific scrap. But at the moment I doubt we could even field a team. Our F-111s are grounded again, and, because of their age (ours have the gearshift on the steering column, and those indicators that flip out of the door pillars), spare parts are available only at wrecking yards and swap meets. Also, we just can't seem to get them to run properly on unleaded. The Chinooks inTownsville are grounded, too. Losing the choppers is bad news as our fixed-wing capacity in the north is presently in tatters. Why? A slight kerfuffle over my good friend Warren Entsch's concreting business has left our RAAF base at Weipa short of a number of desirable features - like a runway. Our Defence Minister, Mr Moore, sends his apologies, but insists that a war is presently out of the question as we don't have a Defence Secretary. Well we have one, but he's currently trying to wrestle Mr Moore to death in the Federal Court, for wrongful dismissal. It would be a little unfair on Mr Moore to begin a war while nobody in the Defence Department will speak to him. You will probably know that the Chief of Navy isn't getting a new contract either but, even if he was, I could not possibly commit our senior service to any conflict. Our two Collins submarines, Drowning and Waving, have just returned from sea trials off Fiji to assess their design targets of silence and stealth. Every time they went into reverse, normal conversation became impossible across most of Chile and Peru. It is also disheartening that Drowning ran aground, especially as this mishap somehow snapped off her periscope. Think about it! Not that we have enough submariners to man the boats anyway. Attracting career sailors to our modern professional navy has not been helped by recent revelations on prime time television that recruits are routinely stripped naked, smeared with food scraps and excrement, and flogged on the buttocks. I take no comfort from the flood of applications this publicity drew from Tasmania. The army is still the bulwark of Australia's security, but even there things are difficult. Changes following the Women In Combat report, and same-sex relationship rulings, have, in my opinion compromised our flexibility. For example, both the First Heavy Armoured (Dykes With Pykes) and the Gay Fusiliers (The Queens Light Foot) refuse to fight for a fortnight either side of the Sydney Mardi Gras. Other soldiers are insisting, these days, on owning the conflict and have begun to enrol in regular workshops to manage their aggression. High Court rulings may also mean, with no offence Dr Alatas, that we cannot engage in a battle against a racially-selected enemy force. Can you recruit a sprinkling of Europeans next time? By all means take as many of ours as you want. It is a good indication of the quality of our Defence Intelligence Organisation that I am unable to send this transmission in code. The code books were stolen by an unstable, steroid abuser, Jean-Phillippe Wispelaere, shrewdly recruited by the DIO, and entrusted with most of our defence secrets. So now we don't have any. Mr Wispelaere sold them all in Bangkok. If you have any secrets you don't need any more, we would be most grateful for them. I should have the code books back soon. Christies are auctioning them in Havana next week. In the meantime, DIO suggests we do the old a=b, b=c, c=d code. They swear by it. I know our refusal will be a considerable disappointment to you, but can I suggest that you consider invading New Zealand instead? Their only significant defence capability lies with their two Anzac-class frigates, Mulk and Lemb. I have no doubt you'll cream them, and I should know. They were both built in Australia. Best wishes, John Howard ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:48:03 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Gene Evans Subject: Question about HOZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everyone, When I first joined the list I said I had a few questions about the = series. I've held off until now because of the con and then the holiday = this last weekend but I figure everyone will be back home by now. When rereading HOZ for the first time in 8-9 years the following = passage struck me as being exceptionally signifigant in light of the = subsequent history: "The Sime-Gen Union will be based, at first, on trust in the channels. = But eventually, all Gens will be trained as companions. There will be no = need for any Gen to fear any Sime. Channels will become just people then = ..." This sounds like the essence of the Rior philosophy. But the quote is = from Klyd Farris, talking to Hugh at the end of Chapter 7. And yet in ZD fifteen years later it's Hugh who is pushing for direct = renSime -Gen transfer while Klyd is firmly against it. The disagreement = between the two of them doesn't sound like merely a timing conflict with = Hugh, Mr Instant Gratification, wanting it Right Now while Klyd thinks = that averting Zelerod's Doom and ending the Sime-Gen wars is challenge = enough for one generation, the rest should be left to their kids. Rather, there appears to have been a fundamental shift in Klyd's = philosophy between the two books and I'm wondering why it happened. Have = JL or Jean said anything on this topic in past posts? Or perhaps some of = the list members might have their own speculations concerning the = matter.=20 Myself, I wonder if some of the younger Zeor members didn't come = under Hughs's influence and start experimenting with direct transfer = without Klyd's permission. Not all of them would succeed and after = burying the Gen failures and expelling the Simes who were too old to = survive disjunction Klyd might well have decided that direct transfer = was a fine dream that could not be made to work in the real world = because the price was too high. I think that the transition to a direct = transfer society would be possible but it would be as hard on Gens as = the mass disjunction after the Tecton takeover was on Simes. The split between Zeor and Rior is crucial to the history of the = Sime-Gen universe and it's a little annoying that the most important = part of it, the philosophical disagreement, happens between stories. Gene ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:21:25 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Hmmm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, One of those odd questions ... does the increased learning rate in first year include things that have to be learned by the body as well as the mind? Examples would be riding horses, martial arts, playing a musical instrument etc. Basically skills that require the body to change its reaction patterns. For the curious I have a youngster in first year learning a fencing style similar to 18th century saber. (crossed with a bit of kendo) Ann Marie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:33:28 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Hmmm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Olson, Ann Marie" wrote: > > Hello, > > One of those odd questions ... does the increased learning rate in first > year include things that have to be learned by the body as well as the mind? > Examples would be riding horses, martial arts, playing a musical instrument > etc. Basically skills that require the body to change its reaction patterns. > > For the curious I have a youngster in first year learning a fencing style > similar to 18th century saber. (crossed with a bit of kendo) > > Ann Marie > Yes. While it might seem counter-intuitive, the high learning rate in the early years is caused by a 30 percent die-back in brain-cells, which: a) Is part of a competitive networks model b) Allows physical space for new connections to be made. You will find that learning any sequenced activity (eg: Fencing, and in particular any throwing activity such as javelin) will have a tremendous positive benefit on language skills, since they both use the same neural machinery. >From the POV of the physical structure of the brain, there's no difference between mental skills and physical skills. From a slightly broader perspective, physical skills are learned 'at the muscles' as the nervous system includes neural elements of it's own, and can be trained to react independently to stimuli of instructions from the brain. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:31:33 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: PMNewcomb@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Medical Dramas/gall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gallbladders sre for extensive digestion of massive amounts of fat (especially animal fat like whale blubber), despite millenia of generations, they haven't disappeared from us modern humans yet... so if Simes eveolved and were not genetially engineered, they will have them, but not use them much... ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:59:05 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Hmmm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, > You will find that learning any sequenced activity (eg: Fencing, and in > particular any throwing activity such as javelin) [AMO] Interesting about the javelin. In the Russian S~G I am working with, their weapon of choice for formation fighting is spear/javelin. Both as a pole and thrown weapon. Originally as part of the system to prevent the line troops, renSimes, from taking kills on the battlefield. > will have a tremendous > positive benefit on language skills, since they both use the same neural > machinery. [AMO] Huh? I didn't know that. Interesting. > From a slightly > broader perspective, physical skills are learned 'at the muscles' as the > nervous system includes neural elements of it's own, and can be trained > to react independently to stimuli of instructions from the brain. [AMO] Which is exactly how someone who has extensive training can move far faster than someone who is stronger. I do know at least -that- much about the martial arts. This is how I can justify to myself having Gens who are as quick in combat as Simes. (except for one, who cheats using endowment) Once you hit the mv=mv threshold, it doesn't matter who is stronger, only who is quicker off the mark. When it is non-brain controlled, as in many of the martial arts, the advantages given to Simes by their ability to augment becomes far less to none. The only thing I can think of augmentation still being an advantage at that point would be for tactical maneuvering. Ann Marie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:20:06 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Hmmm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Olson, Ann Marie" wrote: > > Which is exactly how someone who has extensive training can move far faster > than someone who is stronger. I do know at least -that- much about > the martial arts. This is how I can justify to myself having Gens who are as > quick in combat as Simes. ( A Gen and a Sime with the same (very high) level of skill: the Sime will still be /slightly/ faster because his muscle cells will react more rapidly to the signals they receive. IF augmentation is a muscle thing rather than/as well as a nerve thing. If it's nerve only, there won't be a speed difference. IMO. YMMV. Jenn V. (oh, and to the guy with the Zeor/Rior philosophy question: you know, I hadn't noticed. Haven't thought of it, and don't have an answer for you. Hmmmm. Innnnteresting.) -- "We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor. This is women's work!" Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/ Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:02:23 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 8 Sep 1999 to 9 Sep 1999 - Unfinished MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/8/99 9:51:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM writes: << One of those odd questions ... does the increased learning rate in first year include things that have to be learned by the body as well as the mind? Examples would be riding horses, martial arts, playing a musical instrument etc. Basically skills that require the body to change its reaction patterns. >> I think so. I remember Ercy tossing around boulders while learning to augment. There was certainly a good deal of physical work in that--throwing and catching accurately at very high speeds. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:08:24 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 8 Sep 1999 to 9 Sep 1999 - Unfinished MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/8/99 9:51:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM writes: << Once you hit the mv=mv threshold, it doesn't matter who is stronger, only who is quicker off the mark. >> If probably helps though if the Gen dipps his or her sword point in strawberry juice. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:13:41 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 8 Sep 1999 to 9 Sep 1999 - Unfinished MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/8/99 9:51:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM writes: << A Gen and a Sime with the same (very high) level of skill: the Sime will still be /slightly/ faster because his muscle cells will react more rapidly to the signals they receive. >> Here's a thought. It might seem like Simes would not present as large a target area in general as Gens because they tend to be thinner, but a Sime whose laterals are injured is dead. A Gen being struck in the arm has a good chance of surviving, even if his or her hand is cut off. Simes who are fighting with swords would have to be as careful of protecting their forearms as they are of their throats and vitals. This might put them at a disadvantage. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:24:49 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Question about HOZ In-Reply-To: <01BEFA09.3C57F6C0@node156.nlamerica.com> from "Gene Evans" at Sep 8, 99 02:48:03 pm Content-Type: text The question came: > This sounds like the essence of the Rior philosophy. But the quote > is from Klyd Farris, talking to Hugh at the end of Chapter 7. > > And yet in ZD fifteen years later it's Hugh who is pushing for >direct renSime -Gen transfer while Klyd is firmly against it. The >The disagreement between the two of them doesn't sound like merely a >timing conflict with Hugh, Mr Instant Gratification, wanting it Right >Now while Klyd thinks that averting Zelerod's Doom and ending the >Sime-Gen wars is challenge enough for one generation, the rest should >be left to their kids. It's a bit hard to make out the details, since _ZD_ suffers a bit from being multiple stories (Hugh and Risa vs. Klyd, the overthrow of the Nivet government, _and_ the war against the Raiders) crammed into a too-small book. But as near as I can figure, Klyd seems to think that anything short of utter perfection is completely intolerable, and therefore _cannot_ accept an error rate of any sort. Granted, the consequences (in the pre-kerduvon era, with no post- First Year disjunction possible) are extreme, but I tend to side with Keon on this one; it's usually possible to work out an interim solution that's not perfect, but nevertheless a significant step on the way there. > The split between Zeor and Rior is crucial to the history of >the Sime-Gen universe and it's a little annoying that the most >important part of it, the philosophical disagreement, happens >between stories. Yes. There's a lot of stuff that JL thinks happened that never got recorded in the stories (such as Hugh and Klyd's conflict over Ayesha -- check the archives for what happened when that came up), but I agree that having the primary debate happen off-stage is annoying. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:30:10 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Hmmm In-Reply-To: <1583828ED67FD211A31D006008277B19236F38@mail.gammametrics.com> from "Olson, Ann Marie" at Sep 8, 99 01:21:25 pm Content-Type: text > Hello, > > One of those odd questions ... does the increased learning rate in first > year include things that have to be learned by the body as well as the mind? > Examples would be riding horses, martial arts, playing a musical instrument > etc. Basically skills that require the body to change its reaction patterns. > > > For the curious I have a youngster in first year learning a fencing style > similar to 18th century saber. (crossed with a bit of kendo) I suspect that it applies to everything. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:29:37 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Swords and Simes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, > Here's a thought. It might seem like Simes would not present as large a > target area in general as Gens because they tend to be thinner, but a Sime > whose laterals are injured is dead. A Gen being struck in the arm has a > good > chance of surviving, even if his or her hand is cut off. Simes who are > fighting with swords would have to be as careful of protecting their > forearms > as they are of their throats and vitals. [AMO] You just pointed out one of my 'pet peeves' with the original stories. I'm sorry, but I know -very- few male atheletes who compete in contact sports who don't wear a cup. I would think one of the first things Simes would come up with in a culture where there was a lot of physical combat would be some kind of armor for their forearms. No matter how tricky or difficult it might be to come up with something that would still give them the freedom of motion and a reasonable ability to still zlin clearly. The Rus -do- have armor. It is all leather except for the one Demense that uses swords, and in their case they do have a strip of steel over the laterals. The general attitude is "Its a pain, they can pinch, I don't like the distortion ... but its better than getting an injured lateral" ... basically "better annoyed than dead". Probably when the Tecton runs into them there will be a lot of knotted tentacles over the whole concept ... they do, I think, look more than a bit like very odd retainers. > This might put them at a > disadvantage. [AMO] It -is- a primary target zone in their fencing. Ann Marie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:35:23 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Interesting -- Web related MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought you'd like this. Karen Litman ONLY 19 CLICKS SEPARATE ANY TWO RANDOM WEB PAGES Associated Press Any two randomly picked pages on the World Wide Web are on the average just 19 clicks away from each other, researchers say. The findings, reported in Thursday's issue of the journal "Nature," suggest that the Web is so interconnected that any desired information is nearby even though there are 800 million documents available. The key is knowing which links to click. The study was conducted by Albert-Laszlo Barabasi, a University of Notre Dame physics professor, and colleagues. They constructed a robot that collected all the links on a Web page and followed them to their destination. The process was repeated over and over again. Using statistical tools, they figured out the average distance between two random pages. And even if the Web grows 1,000 percent, the distance would change only from 19 clicks to 21. Search engine companies could use the findings to create programs that more intellligently figure out what's available. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:41:31 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Swords and Simes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/9/99 10:31:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, aolson@GAMMAMETRICS.COM writes: << I would think one of the first things Simes would come up with in a culture where there was a lot of physical combat would be some kind of armor for their forearms. No matter how tricky or difficult it might be to come up with something that would still give them the freedom of motion and a reasonable ability to still zlin clearly. >> I am not sure this is possible. If it were, than retainers would have been invented that offered these same features (the ability to zlin reasonably well through them and some freedom of movement). What Simes might find it more practical to do would be to design protective sword guards to deflect opponents attacts from their forearms. In a normal fencing posture against a single opponant, only the forearm of the arm holding the sword would be in particular danger. The other arm is held as far out of harm's way as possible. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:12:32 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: ladyblue Subject: Medical Dramas/gall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed PMNewcomb@AOL.COM wrote: >so if Simes eveolved and were not genetially engineered, they will have them, but not use them much... so then -- if the organ is not used, it will disintegrate, or become like the appendix -- a remnant of something that we don't need anymore -- given that simes don't like meat -- that would make sense or would bile still be produced by the liver and need a reservoir even if there's little or no animal fat in the diet? Kate ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:19:29 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Medical Dramas/gall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ladyblue wrote: > > PMNewcomb@AOL.COM wrote: > > >so if Simes eveolved and were not genetially engineered, they will have > them, but not use them much... > > so then -- if the organ is not used, it will disintegrate, or become like > the appendix -- a remnant of something that we don't need anymore -- given > that simes don't like meat -- that would make sense > > or would bile still be produced by the liver and need a reservoir even if > there's little or no animal fat in the diet? Unless there's propogative benefit at some point in the specific absence or absence-of-function of an otherwise unused organ, it will likely persist. It would probably be eliminated if there was (a) no need of bile and (b) a number of generations passed where the amount of energy spent in bile production tipped the balance from survival-to-breed to non-survival-to-breed and (c) the expected amount of random mutation was taking place. I would guess that the gall-bladder or bile-production systems could be eliminated in about 6 generations, with a large enough gene-pool to work with in a region. Conversely, the appendix is occasionally functional in people....You could bring that back in about 3 generations by forcing people onto vegetarian starvation diets....You'd lose maybe a quarter of the population outright (those that cannot survive without sufficient levels of animal protein in their diets), and the starvation levels of vegetable matter would select out those whose appendix was 'live' and digesting cellulose. Those who were only doing it partially might surivive...only three generations would see the organ functioning per spec. Curiously, lowering food availability at this point is exactly how you'd go about eliminating the bile-system...simply reduce the available food, to the new (lower) starvation level, and the next critical selection factor is the bile-system. Three more generations sees it atrophy...Except that your gene pool is _probably_ too small at this point without a pause to rebuild it. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:38:00 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 8 Sep 1999 to 9 Sep 1999 (#1999-245) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jenn -- >IF augmentation is a muscle thing rather than/as well as a nerve thing. If >it's nerve only, there won't be a speed difference. UNLESS Simes also have a different structure to the myelination of nerve cells. Mammals have both myelinated and amyelinated nerve cells - and myelinated conduct MUCH faster than amyelinated. So it IS possible that Simes may have faster reflexes as well as thought-out-actions than Gens depending on that. Jean, JL -- comments on myelination in Simes? Ann >fighting with swords would have to be as careful of protecting their forearms >as they are of their throats and vitals. This might put them at a >disadvantage. They might even invent something like a much more comfortable equivalent of retainers for sheer protection -- at least the front-liners. Tony >that anything short of utter perfection is completely intolerable, >and therefore _cannot_ accept an error rate of any sort. /nods. Klyd is as neurotic as hell -- he's as paralyzed by fear of error as the worst trauma victim. "Your character is your fate.' ....Phil Ochs, 1973, writing about Richard Nixon Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com Please do not send unsolicited attachments. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:41:59 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Colleen Maynard Subject: Re: Swords and Simes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ann Marie Olson writes: <> Gauntlets. Bracers. There are all kinds of forearm armor that Simes could copy. My husband Mike makes a variety of gauntlets and bracers out of leather (good heavy leather, not garment quality!) that sell quite well at ren faires. If Simes could get ahold of some - better, have them custom designed and made - I think they'd find them pretty effective in guarding the forearm while still allowing relatively reasonable ability to zlin clearly. The biggest problem would be that most armor (well, all that I know of but my knowledge certainly isn't universal) is made of leather or metal. If Simes refuse to eat meat, do they refuse to use leather as well? And it's been made clear that metal is definitely scare. Also, aren't most metal deposits in Gen Territory? The Anne Partridge writes: <> Except that retainers were invented by Gens, not Simes, and by Gens who saw Simes as the enemy at that. The inventors had no reason whatsoever to make sure that retainers allowed zlinning or were the least bit comfortable - to the contrary, actually. They were a very effective device of imprisonment and torture. Eventually, Simes (?) modified retainers to allow them to travel Out Territory, but the basic design doesn't appear to have changed much - they still required the tentacles to be extended and individually imprisoned. Still an imprisonment (and torture!) device, not a protection device. Also - fencing is not fighting. Have you ever watched anyone fight with live steel? Not SCA, which fights with rattan weapons - though they do actually *fight*, not fence - but a live steel organization that fights with real swords, axes, etc.? Mike's belonged to two different live steel groups (fought with sword and with sparth axe)and I've seen both of them perform. The fights are not choreographed - at least not in the groups he belonged to, though I thing some groups do this - and there's always a danger of actually being hurt, though severe injuries are rare. (Because the purpose of the fight is not to injure the other person and because responsible groups don't allow a fighter to perform until he or she has put in lots of practice and knows exactly what they're doing.) Mike's retired from fighting now because he's had enough injuries - broken fingers, pulled muscles, deep bruises - and contends that fighting is for the young. You ought to check out a really good live steel performance sometime and you'll see that when Simes are fighting with swords, every single body part can be in danger - this is not the stylized and idealized dance that fencing has become. No poses, no keeping an arm out of harm's way. There aren't such things as rules about hitting only certain body parts or no hitting below the belt. (Know what an "Irish enema" is? ) Or if you don't want to seek out a live steel performance, check out the movie The 13th Warrior - now there's some fighting! Colleen M. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:24:25 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Swords and Simes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello, > Gauntlets. Bracers. There are all kinds of forearm armor that Simes > could copy. [AMO] Exactly what I did. Bracers. The ones the Channels wear are articulated such that they can extend their laterals as well as their handling tentacles. The one the renSimes wear are not articulated, and don't allow for extension of the laterals. (and are far simpler to make) They take some skill and practice to learn how to deal with and not get pinched in the process, but better than nothing. Also special gauntlets for falconry, and Simes being restricted to what were called 'ladies birds', the Merlins and Kestrels primarily. > If Simes could get ahold of some - better, > have them custom designed and made - [AMO] Exactly so. Custom fit for the articulated ones, and constant refitting as the body changes. More than a bit uncomfortable late in cycle, though. I also found out they will use quick-release sheathes for knives on the forearms between the ventrals with a rather elaborite harness set up. (If you work on the docks, you wear a knife. Belt knives work, but are far slower to get to, and can get in the way) > The biggest problem would be that > most armor (well, all that I know of but my knowledge certainly isn't > universal) is made of leather or metal. [AMO] Bone was also used by some cultures, particularly for reinforcement. I was thinking boiled leather or laquered. Very much like some of the Japanese armor. Using laceing and knots rather than buckles because of the metal interference. > If Simes refuse to eat meat, do > they refuse to use leather as well? [AMO] Not that I have ever read in the books. They certainly use enough of it. > And it's been made clear that metal > is definitely scare. Also, aren't most metal deposits in Gen Territory? [AMO] I am working in Russia, not North America. One thing I found interesting, is the effects of damascus steel on zlinning. From my own extrapolation, the Damascene patterning would be absolutely fascinating to zlin. > The Anne Partridge writes: > What Simes might find it > more practical to do would be to design protective sword guards to > deflect > opponents attacts from their forearms. [AMO] Actually this is more to protect the handling tentacles, which I would guess would be used along with the hand for fine control. (that would be -neat- to have that much control over the blade without having to go to a bastard sword, my own bladed weapon of choice) I haven't sketched it out, but I would guess a sword hilt and guard designed for a Sime's hand would be a bit odd looking. Possibly even using places to hook a tentacle around for greater leverage. > The other arm is held as far out of harm's way as > possible.>> [AMO] This is only true in single handed, modern style fencing. In some of the older styles, the off-hand held a sword breaker or poignard of some variety. (or cloak, chain, various and sundry other items) > Still an imprisonment (and > torture!) device, not a protection device. [AMO] Exactly so, although it is where I took my original model from. Given the fact that retainers could be made such that they did -not- impair physical dexterity (Unto) I figured it would be possible to make something that would go over the forearms that would allow physical dexterity -and- still, somehow, allow use of the tentacles. > Also - fencing is not fighting. Have you ever watched anyone fight with > live steel? [AMO] Not I. > Not SCA, which fights with rattan weapons - though they do > actually *fight*, not fence - [AMO] This is the only thing I have done, although light weapons only. Even a shinai can give a good smack to the knuckles through padded gloves. Getting popped good on a bony part will sting a bit. (teaches the student to block better ) > and there's > always a danger of actually being hurt, though severe injuries are rare. [AMO] Yup. From what I know of history, there were three major classes of weapons used in the salle. The wooden practice blades (like bokken) for teaching the patterns and katas. (depending on east or west) Unsharpened steel or pot metal replicas used for the more intermediate students to get them used to the weight and balance of a real sword. Finally live steel, which is a metaphysical concept all on its own as well as a weapon. The cult of the sword, throughout various human cultures, is very interesting. (to me at least, I don't know about anyone else) > Mike's retired from fighting now because he's had enough injuries - > broken fingers, pulled muscles, deep bruises - and contends that > fighting is for the young. [AMO] Yes indeed. Particularly in cultures where fighting with hand held weapons still exists. Even up till the end of 'code duello' it was very different. (which actually was the early 20th century) Now getting all the bruises and injuries that go along with learning the way of the sword are seen as unecessary, and so it isn't done anymore. It used to be no big deal, better bruises now than dead later was the attitude. > You ought to check out a really good live > steel performance sometime and you'll see that when Simes are fighting > with swords, every single body part can be in danger - [AMO] This is true of unarmed combat as well, particularly the martial arts 'hard' forms. I certainly collected my share of dings and dents when I was messing around with Shotokan. (not for very long, just enough to get a feel for it) Bone deep bruises, sprains, and occasional broken bones do occur in sparring, even without weapons. (actually, I got less dinged up messing with shinai than Shotokan ... padding is -nice-) > There aren't such things as rules > about hitting only certain body parts or no hitting below the belt. [AMO] Actually this was part of the old dueling codes. Originally to try to make it -more- realistic by excluding non vital areas from the scoring. (particulary, if I remember correctly, for the weapons which weren't used for dueling to 'first blood', like sabre) What's the point in pinking an opponent's foot when they get you in the heart. Ann Marie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:14:42 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Swords and Simes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/10/99 9:32:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cbm@TROYERGROUP.COM writes: << Eventually, Simes (?) modified retainers to allow them to travel Out Territory, but the basic design doesn't appear to have changed much - they still required the tentacles to be extended and individually imprisoned. Still an imprisonment (and torture!) device, not a protection device. >> Wouldn't the modifications to retainers have gone far enough to make freedom of movement and zlinning possible if that kind of modification was possible? ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:24:23 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Swords and Simes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/10/99 9:32:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cbm@TROYERGROUP.COM writes: << You ought to check out a really good live steel performance sometime and you'll see that when Simes are fighting with swords, every single body part can be in danger - this is not the stylized and idealized dance that fencing has become. No poses, no keeping an arm out of harm's way. There aren't such things as rules about hitting only certain body parts or no hitting below the belt. >> Yes. I can see what you mean. I can also see the possibility of a society with such highly ritualized forms and rules of combat that they couldn't conceive of fighting in ways other than something akin to a fencing bout with pointed weapons. Of course someone devious and practical always comes along at some point in history and "fights dirty" and wins by breaking all of the artificial rules. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:53:13 +0000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Swords and Simes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann Partridge wrote: > > In a message dated 9/10/99 9:32:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > cbm@TROYERGROUP.COM writes: > > << Eventually, Simes (?) modified > retainers to allow them to travel Out Territory, but the basic design > doesn't appear to have changed much - they still required the tentacles > to be extended and individually imprisoned. Still an imprisonment (and > torture!) device, not a protection device. >> > Wouldn't the modifications to retainers have gone far enough to make freedom > of movement and zlinning possible if that kind of modification was possible? Depends. It could be a psychological blindspot. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:23:54 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "D. Yon Klempner" Subject: Re: Question about HOZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glen, I see you haven't got much of a response to this post and I suspect it's because this topic may have been argued to death around a decade ago. I, like yourself, am a newcomer to the discussion, although I am a long-time fan. I also see a vast differences between the Hugh and Klyd in HoZ and the ones in ZD--differences that to my mind indicate inconsistencies in conceptualization and not just the normal development of the characters as they grow older. Of course, when HoZ was written, the rest of the universe was a long time being developed and ideas changed over time. I've been reading through the volume of material available on the web-ring and have tracked down at least some information on how and why the shift occurred. Check out the posts about the development of the plot outline for ZD at: http://www.simegen.com/in-t/rimonslibrary/articles/expanuni.html and http://www.simegen.com/in-t/rimonslibrary/articles/zdnovout.html Since I fell in love with the original Hugh and Klyd in HoZ and had lots of years to invent my own version of their future history before ZD told the "true" story, I have never been comfortable with the revised Hugh and Klyd depicted there. The Klyd in HoZ was confident, a risk-taker, an innovator and a master of Gen psychology. He was willing to risk both Sime and Gen lives to pursue his ideal of Unity. He was willing to browbeat and bully Hugh into accepting Companion's training, even though trying to qualify a reluctant out-Territory Gen was clearly dangerous. He DIDN'T follow the rules, he made his own. I can't square this Klyd with the one portrayed in ZD and also in the Chanel novel "The Light of Zeor" by Marge Robbins and Jacqueline Lichtenberg (check it out if you haven't already): http://www.simegen.com/in-t/virtualtecton/Householding/chanel/light.html This other Klyd is rigid and sanctimonious. This is no expert at Gen psychology; most of the Gens who associate with him seem to feel intimidated by his perfectionism. He is terrified of risk, as shown by his aversion to the innovations introduced by Hugh, Kareen and Risa. In "The Light of Zeor," Klyd explains his stand on direct Gen transfer for renSimes, and although I have read it over several times it still doesn't make sense to me. Or rather, it makes the same kind of sense a Victorian preacher would make if he was posted to a South Sea Island tribe and had to explain why the missionary position was the only kind of sex that had divine approval. Now, you can make the character be like that, but I find it hard to believe that such a person would have dared to invite Hugh to Zeor in the first place (especially when it meant burning him.) Or would have had the flexibility to lead the Tecton and Unify the Territory. Perhaps Klyd changed as a result of his torture in the Runzi camp. Certainly the experience of losing his family, falling so deeply into attrition and coming so close to Killing would have been traumatic. Add to that the dishonor of completely losing control to a channel for whom maintaining control is the ideal, the indignity of dependency on an unreliable out-T Gen and the further difficulties of a sexual fixation on Aisha (which is mentioned by JL in some commentary I couldn't find again.) As for Hugh--the Hugh of HoZ is an out-Territory citizen, a veteran of the border wars and an agent of the Gen government. While he is receptive to the idea that Gens should donate to keep Simes from Killing, again and again he reiterates that no Sime has the right to murder a Gen to preserve his own life. When he chooses to serve Klyd, it is a choice made out of friendship and a sense of personal obligation. Granted that his qualification was a life-changing experience, I still cannot understand how this character could ever get from his original position to one in which he would have no empathy for Gen fear and believe that Gens who are Killed deserve to die. Just as you spotted a Rior-Zeor reversal in Klyd's stance about direct Gen transfer, there is also one on this issue. In the scene where the newly established Gen is captured by the Runzi and Killed, it is Klyd who claims that she is responsible for her own death and actually committed suicide; Hugh who vehemently protests this point of view. -----Original Message----- From: Gene Evans To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 2:06 PM Subject: Question about HOZ Hello everyone, When I first joined the list I said I had a few questions about the series. I've held off until now because of the con and then the holiday this last weekend but I figure everyone will be back home by now. When rereading HOZ for the first time in 8-9 years the following passage struck me as being exceptionally signifigant in light of the subsequent history: "The Sime-Gen Union will be based, at first, on trust in the channels. But eventually, all Gens will be trained as companions. There will be no need for any Gen to fear any Sime. Channels will become just people then ..." This sounds like the essence of the Rior philosophy. But the quote is from Klyd Farris, talking to Hugh at the end of Chapter 7. And yet in ZD fifteen years later it's Hugh who is pushing for direct renSime -Gen transfer while Klyd is firmly against it. The disagreement between the two of them doesn't sound like merely a timing conflict with Hugh, Mr Instant Gratification, wanting it Right Now while Klyd thinks that averting Zelerod's Doom and ending the Sime-Gen wars is challenge enough for one generation, the rest should be left to their kids. Rather, there appears to have been a fundamental shift in Klyd's philosophy between the two books and I'm wondering why it happened. Have JL or Jean said anything on this topic in past posts? Or perhaps some of the list members might have their own speculations concerning the matter. Myself, I wonder if some of the younger Zeor members didn't come under Hughs's influence and start experimenting with direct transfer without Klyd's permission. Not all of them would succeed and after burying the Gen failures and expelling the Simes who were too old to survive disjunction Klyd might well have decided that direct transfer was a fine dream that could not be made to work in the real world because the price was too high. I think that the transition to a direct transfer society would be possible but it would be as hard on Gens as the mass disjunction after the Tecton takeover was on Simes. The split between Zeor and Rior is crucial to the history of the Sime-Gen universe and it's a little annoying that the most important part of it, the philosophical disagreement, happens between stories. Gene ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:51:52 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Question about HOZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "D. Yon Klempner" wrote: > > Glen, I see you haven't got much of a response to this post and I suspect > it's because this topic may have been argued to death around a decade ago. > I, like yourself, am a newcomer to the discussion, although I am a long-time > fan. In my experience, topics which have been argued to death a decade ago get a response from the people who were around a decade ago, and have thought them through. More likely people are (like me) sitting here thinking 'gee, I don't have the foggiest what to say about that one, I'll wait till someone who's got something to say has said it and see how they feel'. And no, I don't have a /thing/ to say about it. Hadn't noticed it, haven't got an opinion, have even less in the way of facts to add. It's interesting, though. Jenn V. -- "We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor. This is women's work!" Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/ Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:30:10 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ronnie Bob Whitaker Subject: Do It yourself Y2K check up (Serious) Y2K Fix Hoax Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Saturday, 11 September 1999, Dear Gang, Fishydu in a message to the list on 15 August 1999 forwarded information from "reliable" sources which contained the following information in part: >Where it says, "Short Date Sample", look and see if it shows a "two >digit" year. Of course it does. That's the default setting for Windows >95, Windows 98 and NT. This date RIGHT HERE is the date that feeds >application software and WILL NOT rollover in the year 2000. It will >roll over to 00. The following came directly from an ISP newsletter: >For some time now an e-mail has been circulating on the Internet saying that >most versions of Windows will fail on New Year's Day, 2000, unless you fix it. > >This is a hoax. > >The e-mail refers to Windows 95, 98, and NT and comes in a variety of slightly >different wordings. Here is what one says: > >[quote] > >"Every copy of Windows will fail on January 1st unless you fix it now, to fix >it. > >"1.Click on `My Computer' >"2.Click on `Control Panel' >"3.Click on `Regional Settings' >"4.Click on the `Date' tab. Where it says, `Short Date Sample' look and see if >it shows a `two Digit' year. Of course it does. That's the default setting for >Windows 95, 98 and NT. This date RIGHT HERE is the date that feeds application >software and WILL NOT rollover in the year 2000. It will rollover to 00. >"5.Click on the button across from `Short Date Style' and select the option that >shows mm/dd/yyyy. Be sure your selection has four Y's showing, not two. >"6.Click `Apply' and then click on `OK' at the bottom. Easy enough to fix. >However, every single installation of Windows worldwide is defaulted to fail Y2K >rollover." > >[end quote] > >Wrong! The "Short Date Style" referred to above is just that, an abbreviation >for the longer "yyyy" format. It affects only how dates are displayed on your >screen, for example, 09/11/99 as opposed to 09/11/1999. Changing this setting >will have no impact how Windows "rolls over" on January 1st, 2000; later >versions of Windows will handle the date change well. > >To read what Microsoft itself says about this, please go here: > >http://www.microsoft.com/y2k/hoax/y2khoax.htm RBW Comments: I knew that this message was incorrect when I read it, however, I didn't take the time to investigate it since the instructions on changing to a long date display from a short date display really doesn't "harm" the computer, it just displays the date with four digits for the year. When I received a newsletter from an ISP source, I figured that this e-mail hoax was wider spread than I had believed and thought that I would "enlighten" our group so that they don't get caught up in useless changes for no reason and can make themselves look like "experts" by replying to their "reliable" sources with the valid information. Having Fun in the Sime~Gen Universe, Ronnie Bob ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:05:35 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Do It yourself Y2K check up (Serious) Y2K Fix Hoax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << RBW Comments: I knew that this message was incorrect when I read it, however, I didn't take the time to investigate it since the instructions on changing to a long date display from a short date display really doesn't "harm" the computer, it just displays the date with four digits for the year. When I received a newsletter from an ISP source, I figured that this e-mail hoax was wider spread than I had believed and thought that I would "enlighten" our group so that they don't get caught up in useless changes for no reason and can make themselves look like "experts" by replying to their "reliable" sources with the valid information. >> I did the correction to the short date setting, as advised by the person who gave me my computer. Instead of items being saved with the date 09/11/99 they are now saved as 09/11/1999 which makes it compatable for the Y2K fix. Following Wendy's instructions is advisable. If you need that information again, I believe I still have it. Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:22:44 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Subject: Re: Swords and Simes In-Reply-To: <2e3123ce.250b1757@aol.com> from "Ann Partridge" at Sep 10, 99 10:24:23 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann Partridge scripsit: > Yes. I can see what you mean. I can also see the possibility of a society > with such highly ritualized forms and rules of combat that they couldn't > conceive of fighting in ways other than something akin to a fencing bout with > pointed weapons. Of course someone devious and practical always comes along > at some point in history and "fights dirty" and wins by breaking all of the > artificial rules. The Japanese did that with guns, and the cultural revulsion was so strong that they *abandoned* guns for over a century. The West has done the same with poison gas and with biological weapons, as well as warfare-by-assassination. The point of fighting is to subdue the enemy's will, not to destroy him by any means necessary. Some means are too "dirty" to use. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org I am a member of a civilization. --David Brin ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:47:52 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Subject: Re: Question about HOZ In-Reply-To: <000801befc69$af9e37e0$4e924b0c@yon> from "D. Yon Klempner" at Sep 11, 99 10:23:54 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D. Yon Klempner scripsit: > Perhaps Klyd changed as a result of his torture in the Runzi camp. > Certainly the experience of losing his family, falling so deeply into > attrition and coming so close to Killing would have been traumatic. Add to > that the dishonor of completely losing control to a channel for whom > maintaining control is the ideal, the indignity of dependency on an > unreliable out-T Gen and the further difficulties of a sexual fixation on > Aisha (which is mentioned by JL in some commentary I couldn't find again.) I continue to believe that Klyd's situation at the end of HoZ is a phony created by himself in order to push Hugh into doing what Klyd thought was necessary. Klyd was in no danger of dying, and he could have escaped from the Runzi camp at any time with a Genslam. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org I am a member of a civilization. --David Brin ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:40:41 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Do It yourself Y2K check up (Serious) Y2K Fix Hoax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karen Litman wrote: > > I did the correction to the short date setting, as advised by the person who > gave me my computer. Instead of items being saved with the date 09/11/99 > they are now saved as 09/11/1999 which makes it compatable for the Y2K fix. > Following Wendy's instructions is advisable. If you need that information > again, I believe I still have it. Karen Litman It's advisable for human clarity, it makes no difference to the computer. The dates in the setting are how the computer shows dates to the /human/, not how it stores them in its own 'mind'. Jenn V. -- "We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor. This is women's work!" Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/ Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:58:49 +0000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Marge Subject: Re: Question about HOZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > I continue to believe that Klyd's situation at the end of HoZ is a phony > created by himself in order to push Hugh into doing what Klyd thought > was necessary. Klyd was in no danger of dying, and he could have escaped > from the Runzi camp at any time with a Genslam. Um no. Simes can't do Genslams. Only powerful Gens who know what they're doing can do one. Hugh had the power but at that point not the knowledge or skill to do one. In ZD if memory serves, they got out of a tight spot when Hugh and I think another Companion slamed some simes. I'd have to look up the details though. Haven't read that book in a long time. Marge **************************************************************** webmaster@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com Please allow 3 business days for the fullfillment of requests **************************************************************** ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:37:38 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Netdancer Subject: Genslams? (Was: Re: Question about HOZ) In-Reply-To: <380279B8.CF7C5B94@netins.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:58 PM 10/11/99 +0000, Marge wrote: >> > Um no. Simes can't do Genslams. Only powerful Gens who know what they're doing >can do one. Hugh had the power but at that point not the knowledge or skill to >do one. In ZD if memory serves, they got out of a tight spot when Hugh and I >think another Companion slamed some simes. I'd have to look up the details >though. Haven't read that book in a long time. > > Marge Hey... Are you -positive- of that? It would seem to me that a Channel who can imitate a Gen to perfection in every way because of training, should be able to Slam, as well. It'd definately an important question...what can a Channel do with manipulation of selyn? And if Channels can do it, why don't they use it more often? Innate revulsion at using that as a weapon? Perhaps it's simply a very difficult skill to learn? Kennet ---------------------------------------- 'A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.' R. A. Heinlein ---------------------------------------- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:16:14 +0000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Marge Subject: Re: Genslams? (Was: Re: Question about HOZ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Are you -positive- of that? It would seem to me that a Channel who can > imitate a Gen to perfection in every way because of training, should be > able to Slam, as well. > Fairly sure. I'm sure if Kyld was able to do it, he would have done so to escape. Ask Jean or JL. The only place I've seen it in the books was in ZD. It was done by a couple of high powered companions. Marge -- **************************************************************** webmaster@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com Please allow 3 business days for the fullfillment of requests **************************************************************** ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:38:42 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Question about HOZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/11/99 11:52:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jenn@SIMEGEN.COM writes: << More likely people are (like me) sitting here thinking 'gee, I don't have the foggiest what to say about that one, I'll wait till someone who's got something to say has said it and see how they feel'. And no, I don't have a /thing/ to say about it. Hadn't noticed it, haven't got an opinion, have even less in the way of facts to add. It's interesting, though. >> I have had the same problem as Jenn on this one. When I first saw it, I thought, "gee, this is the best question I have seen in a long time." But I haven't really known how to approach it. It looks like a really big central question of the Sime/Gen universe to me, and I generally do better playing with the details. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:57:54 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "D. Yon Klempner" Subject: Re: Question about HOZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I responded because it's something that has irked me ever since ZD was published. Since I discovered this web-ring a few months ago, I've been systematically searching the archives for an explanation of exactly the questions Glen raised. The answer I'm finding is that as the S/G universe developed, the differing viewpoints of Zeor, Rior and Keon that generate dramatic conflict had to be delineated more clearly, requiring modification of some of the original ideas. Marge, didn't you need to clarify these issues with JL when you wrote "The Light of Zeor" and your other Chanel stories that include Klyd and Hugh as characters? -----Original Message----- From: Ann Partridge To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM Date: Sunday, September 12, 1999 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Question about HOZ >I have had the same problem as Jenn on this one. When I first saw it, I >thought, "gee, this is the best question I have seen in a long time." But I >haven't really known how to approach it. It looks like a really big central >question of the Sime/Gen universe to me, and I generally do better playing >with the details. > >---------- >You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >"unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >---------- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:58:51 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Genslams? (Was: Re: Question about HOZ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Hello, As a warning, this is almost all my own extrapolation ... so believe it at your own risk. >Are you -positive- of that? It would seem to me that a Channel who can >imitate a Gen to perfection in every way because of training, should be >able to Slam, as well. Possibly because a Sime can't kill the same way a Gen does is my guess. (A junct Gen would have to do it -very- fast so as to 'do unto others before it is done unto them' as it were.) In my own extrapolations, the Channels are the -slowest- of all the variants insofar as field manipulation, and without a great deal more training, the least effective. Too much overhead created by the secondary system. A Channel doesn't have the same leverage against fields because they are more distanced from their own because of the secondary/primary split. >It'd definately an important question...what can a Channel do with >manipulation of selyn? Quite a bit, although I would (and have) guessed a Companion/Donor could do -more- actually with field manipulation with sufficient training. Re: tickling or physically manipulating a Sime nervous system with their field.(the first is actually done in First Channel) >And if Channels can do it, why don't they use it more often? Because the Households/Tecton in North America learn about Gen strenghts very late. I would think it would be far more natural and easier for Gens to develop some of the combat field manipulation tecniques than Simes. >Innate revulsion at using that as a weapon? This is my guess in North America. The Households and then later the Tecton are very pacifistic, often to their own detriment, in my opinion. That and all throught the books Gens are seen as less able than Simes. This is a -major- psychological barrier to thinking of such a thing as truly effective for self defense. >Perhaps it's simply a very difficult skill to learn? So are most of the martial arts. Particularly in a culture where children are not taught even physical combat skills. Ann Marie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:09:34 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Genslams? (Was: Re: Question about HOZ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Netdancer wrote: > It'd definately an important questi