========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:20:23 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Colleen Maynard Subject: Re: Duckon VIII MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Leigh, thanks for the report on Duckon. I always enjoy your con reports. The parking situation was one of the reasons we didn't do to Duckon this year. We couldn't afford to go anyway, but even if we could've, I was so annoyed at having to pay for parking (what was it, $7.00 or $8.00 a day for hotel guests?) that I wouldn't have gone. The folks I sold with last year told me they were none too happy about the parking situation either and that if the con doesn't change hotels next year, they won't go back. Has there been any talk about switching hotels? Colleen ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:56:35 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Leigh Kimmel Subject: Re: Duckon VIII Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >The parking situation was one of the reasons we didn't do to Duckon this >year. We couldn't afford to go anyway, but even if we could've, I was >so annoyed at having to pay for parking (what was it, $7.00 or $8.00 a >day for hotel guests?) that I wouldn't have gone. The folks I sold with >last year told me they were none too happy about the parking situation >either and that if the con doesn't change hotels next year, they won't >go back. Has there been any talk about switching hotels? > Yes, there's been talk of switching hotels (apparently a *lot* of people have been dissatisfied with various aspects of that hotel) and it looks like they may switch weekends as well. There's talk of moving to some weekend in March or April, to get it farther away from Worldcon (altho I really don't think June is so close to Worldcon that it will really interfere with attendance, not like if it were just a couple weeks between the two events. -- One terrified boy and the girl who would save him. "Claws of Vengeance" on sale now Alexandria Digital Literature http://www.alexlit.com/ Leigh Kimmel -- writer, artist and historian kimmel@globaleyes.net http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/lhkwebpage.html Ask me how to order the new Sime~Gen novel!!! Visit my bookstore at http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/ Star Wars trading cards now on sale at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=122221702 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:27:21 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Re: Duckon VIII MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leigh Kimmel wrote: >Yes, there's been talk of switching hotels (apparently a *lot* of people >have been dissatisfied with various aspects of that hotel) and it looks >like they may switch weekends as well. There's talk of moving to some >weekend in March or April, to get it farther away from Worldcon From what the guy in charge of the dealer's room told me, if they switch, they will probably be moving to the second weekend in March. But they haven't finalized things yet with the hotel they're talking to. Although he didn't reveal what hotel they may move to, he did say that they had a lot of function space and the dealer's room would be bigger. Larry Ulrey ulrey@juno.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:13:10 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: CZ #12 in paper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's some good news for those who prefer paper to web.... Ronnie Bob (and his very kind heart) has been working to produce a copy of our web based issue of A COMPANION IN ZEOR #12 for me. I am thrilled, as I just received the rough pages to work with. Can anyone say Thank you and A couple of requests here: (1) I am looking for the master artwork from CZ #12, including the to get it onto paper, and preferably using the gray scale. Color copying is too prohibitive. I already have an appropriate cover art (and I'm sure I know where I put it). (2) Additional artwork just for the paper issue. Black and White, 5 by 7 or smaller for fillers. The paper zines were well known for good art, and cartoons, some examples are on the website. I have a good collection of pieces from Gail Ray Barton if I have a low response here. Her work is excellent, and I intend to use some of what she has sent in #12's print issue. (3) People to consider "sponsoring" the issue's printing costs (which I do not know as yet). Each person who donated money for printing found their name on a "sponsor's page" and received an autographed copy of the zine (usually Jacqueline and Jean would sign each and personalize them). I have $100 in seed money from previous issues, which may sound like a lot, but isn't when you want to run 100 copies of a 60 page zine, and this issue may be larger than that. We would want some copies for convention sales as well, so 100 would be the least I would consider printing as the first run. Please e-mail me privately on this topic, as I do not want to clutter the list. When the issue is ready for release I will announce it here with a price for all the non-sponsors. Yours, Karen Litman (KLitman323@aol.com) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:09:27 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Comments: Resent-From: Ann Marie Olson Comments: Originally-From: Ann Marie Olson From: Ann Marie Olson Subject: New Baby! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, Just so that eveyone knows what is going on ... or the alternate explanation for why I will be an absolute ditz on Sunday (or more of a ditz than usual) ... Lucy had her foal sometime during the morning of June 30th. (just in case anyone missed the earlier announcement) Basic stats, the youngster is currently about 12 hours old. Lucy snuck up on us, she presented everyone who walked into the barn this morning with a clean, dry filly ... mares! Both seem perfectly healthy, foal is nursing well and all that good stuff. She is already running around mama and trying to buck, with rather mitigated results there. (she didn't -quite- land on her chin) Lucy is being very protective, but thank goodness not overprotective. (almost though) Good thing actually, as this kid is -already- up to investigating these strange two-footed critters in her environment. (Lucy isn't too sure about this idea) I was scritching between her shoulderblades and she leaned into me like a 70 odd pound kitten, so her stable name may well end up being Kitten. Well, looks like Lucy has her work cut out for her trying to keep up with this young-un. She is a bay like mama, but she may turn out a bit more towards red-gold than red-brown. She has about 12 light colored hairs on her forehead, for a star, that may well disappear with her foal coat, so she might end up completely unmarked as there is no other white on her. Also she will probably turn out to be a bit taller than either sire or dam, surprise there ... Lucy didn't really even -look- that pregnant until about last weekend and even then it wasn't that extreme. Her legs look pretty good for her age but only time will tell there, she has 'hookey' ears like her dad and got the best from both parents in the head, it looks like. About the only thing that could have substantially turned out better is her neck but we will just have to see there. We will probably have pictures up sometime this evening on the web. >From the fuzzy tales and silly grins department, Ann Marie and Lucy ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:30:41 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: ladyblue Subject: Geocities or Tripod site In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Karen -- you quoted some guy form geocites as saying: > "Even worse, Yahoo! won't even let me edit my GeoCities Web site or >remove my content from the service without first accepting the new usage >contract," This is incredibly scary. I don't know much about internet law, but this seems wrong. Are these US based companies? Generally, you have to accept the terms of a contract before you can be held to it. It would seem that you should be able to terminate your relationship and remove your items from Geocities if you disagree with the new terms. Maybe the problem is, it might be like bankcards. They send you the notices that they are going to increase your fees 300%, or require a bigger payment every 30 days, or something. If you disagree, you have to object in writing (in which case they will cancel you) and also not use your card, or you have been deemed to have accepted the new terms. But if you don't read the insert in your credit card bill every month, the terms will change and you will never know until it is too late. Maybe this guy somehow accepted the new terms for GeoCities by taking some action and didn't even realize it. I can't believe that they can change the terms of service on works you have already posted without your consent. Of course, he will probably have to sue them if they are adamant about it. thanks you so much for posting this. I will definitely find out about it. My husband is a professional photographer -- he can't have people swiping his stuff just because they are a service provider. What happens if someone is not authorized to use his photographs posts one on their site at Geocities? There is no way that they could use my husband's work if he is not a member. Ridiculous! send me any info you have, Karen, as I would be interested in following up. and aren't some of the sime-gen sites on Geosities? I was thinking maybe Jean? Later ********************************* It's Always Something -Roseanne Rosannadanna Kate Kirk ladyblue@iquest.net ********************************* ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:33:03 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Geocities or Tripod site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ladyblue wrote: > > Karen -- you quoted some guy form geocites as saying: > > > "Even worse, Yahoo! won't even let me edit my GeoCities Web site or > >remove my content from the service without first accepting the new usage > >contract," > > This is incredibly scary. I don't know much about internet law, but this > seems wrong. > > Are these US based companies? Generally, you have to accept the terms of a > contract before you can be held to it. It would seem that you should be > able to terminate your relationship and remove your items from Geocities if > you disagree with the new terms. The word of the day is 'shrink wrap licenses'. Many of these places say that use of their service is implicit agreement to the terms and conditions, and that you are also agreeing to such terms and conditions as may arise. I can think of a couple legal cases against it, but I wouldn't be in a hurry to try it out in a law court. > Maybe the problem is, it might be like bankcards. They send you the > notices that they are going to increase your fees 300%, or require a bigger > payment every 30 days, or something. If you disagree, you have to object > in writing (in which case they will cancel you) and also not use your card, > or you have been deemed to have accepted the new terms. But if you don't > read the insert in your credit card bill every month, the terms will change > and you will never know until it is too late. Yeah, like that. > Maybe this guy somehow accepted the new terms for GeoCities by taking some > action and didn't even realize it. I can't believe that they can change > the terms of service on works you have already posted without your consent. I can, especially if their previous terms&conds gave them the option to layer new ones. > Of course, he will probably have to sue them if they are adamant about it. I wish luck. I am dubious as to whether it can be won, but I think it _should_ be won. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:42:39 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 29 Jun 1999 to 30 Jun 1999 (#1999-180) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Karen - Thanks for passing on the announcement about Geocities. I'd heard it before and thank heaven I dont' have anything on it. They've always had a weird stay-away feel for me, but up 'til this, it was mainly because of their blasted endless loops I've gotten trapped in so often. This is even worse. Does SG still have anything on Geocities? And I wonder if a lawyer would tell us there's a 30-day notice required if we contest it. I suppose it depends on what state Geocities server(s) reside(s) in or possible on what state the user resides in. Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin Please do not send me _Any_ unsolicited .exe files. They will be deleted unexecuted. www.wingedharper.com ICQ 21238115 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:23:10 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Alternative to E-Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here is something interesting that will give more of the look-and-feel of paper books and newspapers. However, I still doubt it can safely be read in the bathtub. Jean XEROX IN MANUFACTURING PACT FOR ELECTRONIC PAPER Xerox will announce this week that it has partnered with 3M to commercially produce electronic paper. Electronic paper, which has until now been a Xerox research project, is a reusable electronic display that is similar to a computer screen but almost as flexible as ordinary paper. It could be used for such innovations as electronic newspapers that add late-breaking news even while being read. The product uses a display technology called "gyricon" created by Xerox almost 10 years ago. Small beads, similar to toner particles, are embedded in a uniform pattern in a flexible binder sheet. The beads rotate to display one side to the viewer when a pattern of electrical voltage is applied to the surface. The image stays until a new pattern is applied. Despite the new manufacturing deal, electronic paper will not be released for at least another year. (Reuters 06/29/99) Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. --->****Aug. 25-29, 1999, reach me at Jean1@Juno.com****<--- Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:30:10 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Yahoo/Geocities Changes Policy Comments: To: physical_graffiti@onelist.com Comments: cc: rallen@utm.EdU, helen.roulston@murraystate.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This just in from ZDNet: 04:26p Yahoo! changes terms of service Responding to the concerns of GeoCities users, Yahoo! Inc. Wednesday afternoon altered its terms of service agreement to reassure its customers it does not plan to steal their intellectual property. Yahoo! said that even before the change, the terms of service did not affect users' intellectual property rights. Story to follow. --Matthew Broersma, ZDNN I will still want to go check the new wording of Clause 8 of the contract, but this looks hopeful. Jean All opinions expressed in this post are my own unless otherwise indicated. Visit my website at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439. How I love your brown-eyed madness. Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:00:43 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: "Improvement" in Geocities contract Comments: To: cormo@juno.com Comments: cc: rallen@utm.EdU, helen.roulston@murraystate.edu, physical_graffiti@onelist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here is the "new, improved" Clause 8 in the Yahoo/Geocities contract. All they have done is put a statement claiming that they do not own your work _before_ the same old statement that you are licensing your work to Yahoo to do with as they please, forever. It's not an improvement. They are trying to fool you with the claim that they do not own your work--but their claim that you have licensed it to them means that _you_ do not have the right to license it to anyone else free and clear (you can't sign any contracts saying you have the right to give exclusive rights), and Yahoo can _still_ do whatever it wants with your work without asking you or paying you a penny. Forever. Jean >Yahoo does not own Content you submit, unless we specifically > tell you otherwise before you submit it. You license the Content to > Yahoo as set forth below for the purpose of displaying and > distributing such Content on our network of properties and for the > promotion and marketing of our services. By submitting Content > to any Yahoo property, you automatically grant, or warrant that > the owner of such Content has expressly granted, Yahoo the > royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive and fully > sublicensable right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, > publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, > perform and display such Content (in whole or part) worldwide > and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or > technology now known or later developed. Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. --->****Aug. 25-29, 1999, reach me at Jean1@Juno.com****<--- Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:10:58 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: "Improvement" in Geocities contract MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > > Here is the "new, improved" Clause 8 in the Yahoo/Geocities contract. All > they have done is put a statement claiming that they do not own your work > _before_ the same old statement that you are licensing your work to Yahoo to > do with as they please, forever. Gee, can I have a Clause 8 on your stuff, Jean? Jenn V. -- Netiquette: The operating manual for the internet. It's not written to censor, but to prevent further damage. Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:28:37 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Colleen Maynard Subject: Re: "Improvement" in Geocities contract MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Someone brought up an interesting point in the needlework newsgroup yesterday. If a stitcher with a web page on Yahoo/Geocities/Tripod (which, I understand, has the same sort of Terms of Service) were to stitch a design - and most needlework designs are copyrighted by the designer - and display a picture of the finished product on their page, could Y/G/T claim that that the webpage owner had "signed over" that designer's copyright? (Not the webpage owner's copyright, but the designer's - a third person.) How would copyright owned by a third person be covered in these situations? I suppose a similar situation would be if someone had a fanfic page and posted stories by a dozen different people, each of whom owned the copyright to his or her individual stories. Would (could)Yahoo, etc., claim that they now owned all of these copyrights as well? Colleen ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:25:43 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: How Geocities has users trapped Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "I can't believe it," say some simegen-l members. "They can't do that." Well, they did. I have had two sites on Geocities since 1996, installed under the old contract that did not make any claim other than that they could use members' material for promotion (i.e., they could show a page of someone's site on a tv show or commercial about Geocities, or in an ad in a magazine, or they could link to neat sites from their own promotional pages). I had updated my sites before leaving for Florida, so until Karen's post I had not looked at them after June 25. When I got her post, I went to the File Manager and hit a brick wall. Cheery-looking Yahoo pages welcomed me and told me that my old Geocities ID and password would no longer work. In order to reach my page, I had to enter the old info, then choose a new Yahoo ID and password. "Lorrah" was already taken as an ID--I assume some distant cousin was already a Yahoo member. So I chose a new ID and password. THEN I was told I STILL could not reach my files UNTIL I HAD AGREED TO THE NEW CONTRACT WITH THE NEW CLAUSE GIVING YAHOO A LICENSE IN PERPETUITY (FOREVER) TO EVERYTHING ON MY SITES. That's right. Dead end if the old Geocities member does not agree to the contract. You CANNOT REMOVE YOUR SITE without first agreeing that everything on it belongs (in effect--a license in perpetuity such as they one they demand is really no different from ownership) to Yahoo. Oh, and it gets worse. In order to reach my files so I can back them up and then move the site, I had to give a credit card number. Huh?? What's THAT about??? Here is how the Yahoo get-your-credit-card-number scam works: when the old Geocities member finally finishes all the "paperwork" and thinks she is FINALLY going to be able to get into her site...she gets a message, "Parental Permission Required." Yahoo has set their program to interpret the date of building your site on Geocities as your birthdate! Thus, in order to prove that you are an adult, you have to give a credit card number. They CLAIM they will not charge anything to your card. But then again, they are now CLAIMING that they have changed their grab for your rights in their contract, when all they have done is put a lie in front of the rights-grabbing sentence. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. --->****Aug. 25-29, 1999, reach me at Jean1@Juno.com****<--- Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:46:28 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Colleen Maynard Subject: The Kill/Quickening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Something totally off the wall occurred to me this morning. In Highlander, when an Immortal takes another Immortal's head, he receives a quickening - basically, he receives the dead Immortal's essence/soul/what-you-will - and in the process obtains all of the dead Immortal's memories. For some reason it occurred to me this morning to wonder if something similar could ever happen as a result of a Kill. Could a Sime ever conceivably receive a Gen's memories through the Kill the way an Immortal receives another Immortal's through a quickening? (Don't know why the similarities between the two never occurred to me before. Maybe there really aren't any similarities and all this rain is waterlogging my thought processes. ) I don't suppose receiving selyn from a Companion or a Channel would pass on memories - or would it? Colleen ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:47:18 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: How Geocities has users trapped MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/99 10:36:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, a21711f@MSUMUSIK.MURSUKY.EDU writes: << Jean Wrote in part --- I had updated my sites before leaving for Florida, so until Karen's post I had not looked at them after June 25. When I got her post, I went to the File Manager and hit a brick wall. Cheery-looking Yahoo pages welcomed me and told me that my old Geocities ID and password would no longer work. In order to reach my page, I had to enter the old info, then choose a new Yahoo ID and password. "Lorrah" was already taken as an ID--I assume some distant cousin was already a Yahoo member. >> Oh dear. I had that Geocities information from another list I was on. I hadn't checked it for accuracy, but I'm glad I passed it on. Sorry, though, that it is causing such grief to Geocities users. What's the next step to take back our Sime~Gen Geocities sites? ----- Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:58:25 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: How Geocities has users trapped MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karen Litman wrote: > Oh dear. I had that Geocities information from another list I was on. I > hadn't checked it for accuracy, but I'm glad I passed it on. Sorry, though, > that it is causing such grief to Geocities users. What's the next step to > take back our Sime~Gen Geocities sites? ----- Karen Litman Using your backups (or downloading the information - 'view page source' and cut-and-paste can be handy, as can 'save image'), bring up the site somewhere else. I'm sure that eventually they'll remove sites from people who don't sign. :) Jenn V. -- Netiquette: The operating manual for the internet. It's not written to censor, but to prevent further damage. Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:26:02 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Subject: Re: "Improvement" in Geocities contract In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990701140043.0066df7c@msumusik.mursuky.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at Jul 1, 99 09:00:43 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah scripsit: > Here is the "new, improved" Clause 8 in the Yahoo/Geocities contract. All > they have done is put a statement claiming that they do not own your work > _before_ the same old statement that you are licensing your work to Yahoo to > do with as they please, forever. Yup. > It's not an improvement. They are trying to fool you with the claim that > they do not own your work--but their claim that you have licensed it to them > means that _you_ do not have the right to license it to anyone else free and > clear (you can't sign any contracts saying you have the right to give > exclusive rights), and Yahoo can _still_ do whatever it wants with your work > without asking you or paying you a penny. Forever. Jean I know what you mean, but "exclusive" is the wrong term. In the copyright law, an "exclusive license" is one that transfers all rights whatsoever, putting the licensee in your position as author. You can still do that under this contract, but the new licensee inherits your agreement with Yahoo anyway, so the *value* of an exclusive license is lessened. (Do authors/creators still sell exclusive licenses? I had thought that most agreements these days were for specific rights only.) -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org I am a member of a civilization. --David Brin ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:31:48 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Subject: Re: "Improvement" in Geocities contract In-Reply-To: from "Colleen Maynard" at Jul 1, 99 09:28:37 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colleen Maynard scripsit: > > Someone brought up an interesting point in the needlework newsgroup > yesterday. If a stitcher with a web page on Yahoo/Geocities/Tripod > (which, I understand, has the same sort of Terms of Service) were to > stitch a design - and most needlework designs are copyrighted by the > designer - and display a picture of the finished product on their page, > could Y/G/T claim that that the webpage owner had "signed over" that > designer's copyright? (Not the webpage owner's copyright, but the > designer's - a third person.) No. But if the designer sued for infringement, Yahoo could turn around and sue the webpage owner. That's the meaning of the language about "warrant[ing] that the owner of such Content has granted [the Yahoo license]" Put up material with third-party intellectual claims at your own risk! > How would copyright owned by a third > person be covered in these situations? I suppose a similar situation > would be if someone had a fanfic page and posted stories by a dozen > different people, each of whom owned the copyright to his or her > individual stories. Would (could)Yahoo, etc., claim that they now owned > all of these copyrights as well? They don't *own* the copyright; they have a *license* to use the material as they wish. In particular, they can't exclude any other licenses that you grant; if you license the content to someone else, they have nothing to say. But yes, they are free to use those stories as they wish, and if the story owners sue, the webpage owner is liable. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org I am a member of a civilization. --David Brin ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:03:10 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Don Jaramillo Organization: Companion-in-Underdraw Subject: Re: "Improvement" in Geocities contract MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: John Cowan To: Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 9:31 AM Subject: Re: "Improvement" in Geocities contract > > How would copyright owned by a third > > person be covered in these situations? I suppose a similar situation > > would be if someone had a fanfic page and posted stories by a dozen > > different people, each of whom owned the copyright to his or her > > individual stories. Would (could)Yahoo, etc., claim that they now owned > > all of these copyrights as well? > > They don't *own* the copyright; they have a *license* to use the material > as they wish. In particular, they can't exclude any other licenses that > you grant; if you license the content to someone else, they have nothing > to say. > > But yes, they are free to use those stories as they wish, and if the > story owners sue, the webpage owner is liable. Well, I'm glad that I moved the Rathorite's Retreat site to simegen.com when I did, but the old site still exists to direct people to the new, and the copies of Jacqueline's Monthly Aspectarian articles still reside there! Needless to say, I am NOT happy! I have the old Rathorite site on Geocities. I also have my CAW ProtoNest site there as well. Follow Your Bliss!! Don ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:37:38 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: Geocities or Tripod site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/30/99 9:36:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dancer@ZEOR.SIMEGEN.COM writes: << > Of course, he will probably have to sue them if they are adamant about it. I wish luck. I am dubious as to whether it can be won, but I think it _should_ be won. >> It can be won...and it will be won if Geocities pushes this situation. But, let somebody with a lot of money...or some bright attorney who wants to make a name for themselves in the class action business...file. I really expect that Geocities will back down with regards to permitting current users to remove their pixels. However I expect that future users will be faced with the decision of either agreeing to these terms or not using Geocities. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:37:10 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: How Geocities has users trapped MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Jenn V." wrote: > > Karen Litman wrote: > > > Oh dear. I had that Geocities information from another list I was on. I > > hadn't checked it for accuracy, but I'm glad I passed it on. Sorry, though, > > that it is causing such grief to Geocities users. What's the next step to > > take back our Sime~Gen Geocities sites? ----- Karen Litman > > > > Using your backups (or downloading the information - 'view page source' and > cut-and-paste can be handy, as can 'save image'), bring up the site somewhere > else. Removal of the material might be a nuisance, but we have tools that can copy it. 'wget' a fine unix tool can be used to copy an entire user's website automatically (and even attempt to rewrite the links), sufficing only that all the material is accessible by following links off the supplied URL (eventually - every page is scanned for further links, and so on). If you want a site copied, we can arrange it, if you give us all your top page URLs. Commune with Marge (webmaster@simegen.com) about a website on simegen.com, and give her the information about the site you need replicated. She'll pass that to us, and we'll get the copy done. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:36:31 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 30 Jun 1999 to 1 Jul 1999 (#1999-181) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ladyblue >This is incredibly scary. I don't know much about internet law, but this >seems wrong. there is a problem in that there is not much internet law, yet. You don't make laws about flying 'til people have planes, and people are still largely attempting to govern the net by extrapolating from other media. I think there will be many more laws passed very shortly, and with any luck, maybe not all of them will be bad. GEnie was really bad about changing use policies without notice -- they jacked us up from something like $4.99/month to about $12/month and made it RETROactive! People fled the service en masse and it eventually collapsed. The rumor was that that is what the group that had just bought it WANTED. They considered the GEIS users their cash cow and us GEnie-ites as squatters. They did let the people who wrote and complained out of the extra they had tried to extort from us, but I have no idea what percent complained in time. My roommate was able to get most if not all of his stuff off his GeoCities site last night when I read him the warning you guys sent. I've never been willing to deal wtih them because of their category structure and its endless loops, but he had stuff there for a long time. (Some of it is already in copyright by the NFB and was specifically okayed by them to post -- I don't know what in heck GeoCities would have tried to do with that.) I have a question -- Does Mickland have a first name? I've got an idea for a filksong about him but syllable-wise, it needs a 2-digit first name or nickname. And the filksong if all goes well will be briefly mentioned and perhaps a line or 2 used in a story I'm working on outlining. Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin Please do not send me _Any_ unsolicited .exe files. They will be deleted unexecuted. www.wingedharper.com ICQ 21238115 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:59:44 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 30 Jun 1999 to 1 Jul 1999 (#1999-181) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/99 6:25:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, orchestra@WINGEDHARPER.COM writes: << I have a question -- Does Mickland have a first name? I've got an idea for a filksong about him but syllable-wise, it needs a 2-digit first name or nickname. And the filksong if all goes well will be briefly mentioned and perhaps a line or 2 used in a story I'm working on outlining. Jaye >> I don't know if Mickland has a first name, but I think I remember some kind of S~G filk song which mentioned the Mickland name. It would be in the Sime/Gen Songbook some 19 years ago. Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:05:05 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jeff Hall Oh boy, guess you were right about the taking advantage of the offer :] Anyway I don't get on the net really heavy except on the weekends. But I look forward to helping you folks where I can. A bit of a web master myself although have only began learning about 2 months ago. My web page is on http://members.xoom.com/DragonLov if anyone is interested. Would really appreciate feedback and would like to incorporate the Sime/Gen universe in a page along if that is ok with you folks. Don't want to "steal" anything from anyone that is the reason I am asking. Let me know at your convience and looking forward to working with you all. (I am so excited I could bust!!!!!!!!) ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occassion at http://greetings.xoom.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:34:03 -0800 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: Mickland Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mickland's first name is "Dee" Mary Lou ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:22:28 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jeff Hall Subject: Re: How Geocities has users trapped In response to this obvious taking advantage of users I would like to submit the following: With all due respect, the pages that are given to alot of these places are submitted and accepted as free. Most users of these places do not pay for the services provided for the webmasters out there. In my opinion, if you wish to submit thinks on a page for others to see and do not want to build your own server and register a domain for your server, then you are at the mercy of what the provider's hand down to you. I think the term "you get what you pay for" really applies here. I don't mean to sound like I am endorsing what these people are doing, I think those of you that have intellectual property you wish to protect, you should get your own domain name and copyright your material. I am one a "free site" myself and not very creative as you folks appear to be with stories and drawings so this really doesn't bother me too much. I was just wondering, how large is the server on virtual tecton? An maybe a collection :] could be taken up to enlarge the storage and maybe have users/members build thier sites on that. Just a thought. Let me know what you think..... Jeff Jean Lorrah wrote: > "I can't believe it," say some simegen-l members. "They can't do that." > > Well, they did. > > I have had two sites on Geocities since 1996, installed under the old > contract that did not make any claim other than that they could use members' > material for promotion (i.e., they could show a page of someone's site on a > tv show or commercial about Geocities, or in an ad in a magazine, or they > could link to neat sites from their own promotional pages). > > I had updated my sites before leaving for Florida, so until Karen's post I > had not looked at them after June 25. When I got her post, I went to the > File Manager and hit a brick wall. Cheery-looking Yahoo pages welcomed me > and told me that my old Geocities ID and password would no longer work. In > order to reach my page, I had to enter the old info, then choose a new Yahoo > ID and password. "Lorrah" was already taken as an ID--I assume some distant > cousin was already a Yahoo member. > > So I chose a new ID and password. THEN I was told I STILL could not reach > my files UNTIL I HAD AGREED TO THE NEW CONTRACT WITH THE NEW CLAUSE GIVING > YAHOO A LICENSE IN PERPETUITY (FOREVER) TO EVERYTHING ON MY SITES. > > That's right. Dead end if the old Geocities member does not agree to the > contract. You CANNOT REMOVE YOUR SITE without first agreeing that > everything on it belongs (in effect--a license in perpetuity such as they > one they demand is really no different from ownership) to Yahoo. > > Oh, and it gets worse. In order to reach my files so I can back them up and > then move the site, I had to give a credit card number. Huh?? What's THAT > about??? > > Here is how the Yahoo get-your-credit-card-number scam works: when the old > Geocities member finally finishes all the "paperwork" and thinks she is > FINALLY going to be able to get into her site...she gets a message, > "Parental Permission Required." > > Yahoo has set their program to interpret the date of building your site on > Geocities as your birthdate! Thus, in order to prove that you are an adult, > you have to give a credit card number. > > They CLAIM they will not charge anything to your card. > > But then again, they are now CLAIMING that they have changed their grab for > your rights in their contract, when all they have done is put a lie in front > of the rights-grabbing sentence. > > Jean > > Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. > --->****Aug. 25-29, 1999, reach me at Jean1@Juno.com****<--- > Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 > > ---------- > You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. > To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to > LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text > "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". > ---------- > ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occassion at http://greetings.xoom.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:51:52 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Veraik Subject: Mary Lou In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" LOL I can't believe you're posting to the list Mary Lou. Shouldn't you be working on the wedding? Preparing to pack. Cherri aka Veraik ambrov Zeor "My Life is My Own" http://www.j51.com/~zeor/life.html A Sime~Gen Novel ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:55:02 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Mary Lou MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/99 9:53:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cdmunoz@EARTHLINK.NET writes: << LOL I can't believe you're posting to the list Mary Lou. Shouldn't you be working on the wedding? Preparing to pack. Cherri aka Veraik ambrov Zeor "My Life is My Own" http://www.j51.com/~zeor/life.html A Sime~Gen Novel >> Both of you have an enjoyable time. Best wishes Mary Lou. Wish I could be there with you. Yours, Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:37:07 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: "Improvement" in Geocities contract MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:28:37 -0500 Colleen Maynard writes: >Someone brought up an interesting point in the needlework newsgroup >yesterday. If a stitcher with a web page on Yahoo/Geocities/Tripod >(which, I understand, has the same sort of Terms of Service) were to >stitch a design - and most needlework designs are copyrighted by the >designer - and display a picture of the finished product on their >page, >could Y/G/T claim that that the webpage owner had "signed over" that >designer's copyright? (Not the webpage owner's copyright, but the >designer's - a third person.) How would copyright owned by a third >person be covered in these situations? I suppose a similar situation >would be if someone had a fanfic page and posted stories by a dozen >different people, each of whom owned the copyright to his or her >individual stories. Would (could)Yahoo, etc., claim that they now >owned >all of these copyrights as well? The answer is YES. Read that fatal sentence again: By submitting Content to any Yahoo property, you automatically grant, or warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted, Yahoo the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Content (in whole or part) worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed. YOU, the person who posts the work to Geocities, WARRANT that the OWNER of the content has granted the license!!!!! IOW, a part of this mess is Yahoo saying "Sue the webmaster, not Yahoo--the webmaster warranted that you gave your license to us." This is a HORRIBLE sentence, just FULL of lions to chew EVERYBODY other than Yahoo/Geocities up and spit them out in little bloody bits. Jean All opinions expressed in this post are my own unless otherwise indicated. How I love your brown-eyed madness. Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:41:06 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: incorporating S~G stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Hall wrote: > > Would really appreciate feedback and would like > to incorporate the Sime/Gen universe in a page along if > that is ok with you folks. Don't want to "steal" anything > from anyone that is the reason I am asking. Let me know at > your convience and looking forward to working with you all. > (I am so excited I could bust!!!!!!!!) Talk with Marge (webmaster@simegen.com) about the S~G stuff you wish to incorporate. We've got a machine (hosted by yours truly & my darling husband Dancer) which holds the S~G stuff. We're swearing at a search engine for S~G, but it looks like to save effort/energy/space/money it'll only search what's on our drives. Still not sure of that. Jenn V. -- Netiquette: The operating manual for the internet. It's not written to censor, but to prevent further damage. Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:51:20 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: How Geocities has users trapped MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Hall wrote: > I think those of you that have intellectual property you wish > to protect, you should get your own domain name and copyright your material. Copyright doesn't protect against the geocities-ish shrinkwrap licence clause8. As for getting a domain name - Dancer manages domains. It's one of his skills. He could - quite easily - charge thousands of dollars per annum per domain he manages. That's quite literally what the skill is worth, in a free-market environment. Depending on what the domain name owner wants to do with it, he could also be kept hopping for thousands-of-dollars-per-annum worth of work, too. Which is why he *doesn't* run domains, except in unusual circumstances. (like: friends of his wife who are doing good things for her wanted to have their own domain... ) (I know there are places which do domain services more cheaply, and do web hosting with it. These places average out the costs in other ways.) Then there's the question of a server. A permanent net connection. And so on, and so forth. It just ain't that cheap and easy to 'get a domain'. > I was just wondering, how large is the server on virtual tecton? An maybe a > collection :] could be taken up to enlarge the storage and maybe have > users/members build thier sites on that. Just a thought. Let me know what you > think..... At present, Dancer and I aren't getting anything for the bandwidth, machine itself (though Jean and JL own the drives), sysadminning, etc. Nor is Marge, who's doing a LOT of the sysadmin grunt work. (you /EVER/ want a reference, Marge, yell!) I don't mind managing for the S~G system of sites, but I'm not ready to do a no-holds-barred-everyone-and-their-cousin sort of site. Do you have any idea how much bandwidth Geocities used? How many new users were added per day? How much userhelp was needed? Aieeeee! Dancer had a thought about a way to manage a not-quite-free geocities-ish site which DOES pay for itself. If he thinks he can do it, we just might. Low-cost, but it /would/ have a cost per user - enough to ensure that we could hire someone/get paid .. and that would cover the userhelp, standard cgi scripts, etc etc etc. Jenn V. -- Netiquette: The operating manual for the internet. It's not written to censor, but to prevent further damage. Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 22:26:27 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: How Geocities has users trapped MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:22:28 -0700 Jeff Hall writes: > In response to this obvious taking advantage of users I would like >to submit >the following: > With all due respect, the pages that are given to alot of these >places >are submitted and accepted as free. Most users of these places do not >pay for >the services provided for the webmasters out there. In my opinion, if >you wish >to submit thinks on a page for others to see and do not want to build >your own >server and register a domain for your server, then you are at the >mercy of what >the provider's hand down to you. Ah, but a contract is a contract. The Geocities contract did _not_ lay claim to the intellectual property placed on the Geocities websites. When Yahoo took over they LOCKED the websites and FORCED people to agree to their new contract before people could reach their sites to remove their material--they had to agree that that material was licensed to Yahoo forever before they could remove it. I'm sure that eventually there will be a judgment that they cannot do that (people are not actually bound by the new contract because they agreed to it under duress), but in the meantime, they DID. > I think the term "you get what you >pay for" >really applies here. I don't mean to sound like I am endorsing what >these >people are doing, I think those of you that have intellectual property >you wish >to protect, you should get your own domain name and copyright your >material. It's not the $35.00 a year to register the domain. It's the monthly fee to run your domain on a server that is out of the reach of most people. Also, by far the majority of creative people are NOT technically oriented, and are in no way cognizant of how to obtain or run a domain. Sites like Geocities attract them with east of use. And remember, once again, the Geocities contract was PROTECTIVE of the copyrights of its members. >I >am one a "free site" myself and not very creative as you folks appear >to be >with stories and drawings so this really doesn't bother me too much. Again, it is the broken contract and the agreement under duress that is the problem here. Let's not get into the value of intellectual property and the meaning of copyright, which are peripheral issues. Yahoo bought Geocities and BROKE THE GEOCITIES CONTRACT. They gave NO OPPORTUNITY to people who had contracted with Geocities to decide for themselves whether they wanted to accept Yahoo's new contract--instead they held their pages hostage to force them to do so. THAT is the issue. NOT "you get what you pay for." > I was just wondering, how large is the server on virtual tecton? >An maybe a >collection :] could be taken up to enlarge the storage and maybe have >users/members build thier sites on that. Just a thought. Let me know >what you >think..... At the moment we have plenty of space for private websites--but we don't have the personnel to administer running them. (Why do you think we are trying to recruit you?) We hope in a year or two to be doing exactly what you suggest, Jeff, letting anyone who is _creative_ (Where Sime meets Gen, Creativity Happens) in any form (including games, reviews, and analysis) have a free site on simegen.com. If our plans to gain income succeed, we will have the ability to purchase more storage space to expand. Right now we have far more space than we are using--but if we _did_ have the personnel to throw open the site to all comers, especially with millions fleeing Geocities and looking for new homes, we would quickly run out of space. So for the time being, sites on simegen.com are by invitation (if you are on this list, though, it's _really_ easy to get invited if you want to be). Jean All opinions expressed in this post are my own unless otherwise indicated. How I love your brown-eyed madness. Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:38:36 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: ladyblue Subject: Re: service providers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:00 AM 7/3/99 +1000, Jenn wrote >Dancer had a thought about a way to manage a not-quite-free geocities-ish >site which DOES pay for itself. If he thinks he can do it, we just might. Please do. I would much rather pay you guys that the slow ridiculous guys I pay now! course, although I have space to put up a web page, and have for years, I have never done it. I even know lots of the things I would put on it, but I have never figured out how to use the programs I would need to put up a webpage. Just another example of "creative" meets "tech," and "tech" loses. ;-) Later Kate ********************************* It's Always Something -Roseanne Rosannadanna Kate Kirk ladyblue@iquest.net ********************************* ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:12:24 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: service providers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/2/99 4:37:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ladyblue@IQUEST.NET writes: << course, although I have space to put up a web page, and have for years, I have never done it. I even know lots of the things I would put on it, but I have never figured out how to use the programs I would need to put up a webpage. Just another example of "creative" meets "tech," and "tech" loses. ;-) Later Kate >> Another example of learning to do a webpage is to use an HTML program to do the code and tweak the codes using "HTML for Dummies" or something similar as a reference book. I have a couple of HTML programs on my new computer and I'm still learning them. ---- Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:28:56 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Subject: Re: How Geocities has users trapped In-Reply-To: <19990702.074240.-968449.0.Jean1@juno.com> from "Jean Lorrah" at Jul 1, 99 10:26:27 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah scripsit: [many references to "Geocities contract"] What contract? As I recall, you are talking about the terms of use Geocities imposed on you for using their site. They promised nothing, and explicitly reserved the right to change the terms at any time without notice. (This is IIRC: I don't have access to the old terms.) -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org I am a member of a civilization. --David Brin ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:22:51 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 1 Jul 1999 to 2 Jul 1999 (#1999-182) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jean Lorrah Colleen Maynard I have some stitcher friends, and they've talked a lot about "Don't post any graphic of anything you've stitched from a copyrighted pattern without permission in writing from the copyright holder to do so." It ends up meaning: "if I design and stitch and scan something, I can post it. If I post it to Geocities, I no longer own the rights to it because of their agreement." I'm just waiting for it to be illegal to show work at county fairs if the pattern was copyrighted. Not just needlework -- woodwork, clothing, recipies, poured-mold ceramics... On the harplist, someone just announced that he's developed a single-course chromatic harp and is filing a patent on it... another harpmaker wrote back and said "no, these have been around since the 1600's. You may have reinvented something that had fallen into unuse, but you did not invent it and you don't qualify for a patent. I built my prototype last year and my first commissioned copies are almost finished." Wanting to own rights to things is a hot subject these days, because unlicensed copying is so very easy. One reason a lot of needlepoint patterns started being in color was that it was too expensive to photocopy it. It was cheaper to buy your own copy. Now, with good scanners and color printers, it's no longer cheaper to buy your own. Same with CD-writers, and DAT's. Ideally, we'd have a general public who values art for art's sake and realizes that to keep getting our fixes, we have to pay the creators... I ain't holding my breath. When TV first became popular, someone here in town broadcast a Mickey Mouse cartoon. Disney found out and phoned the guy and said "This is a new medium, and I need to establish that royalties must be paid to creators for use of their wares in this medium. I'm going to sue you for $25. I want you to settle and pay me the $25. Then I'll send you an unofficial payment of $25, we'll be even, and the precedent will be entered into law." They did, and that was the beginning of TV stations understanding that they coudln't have films free and clear to profit from. (I heard about it because there's a retired kindergarten teacher here in town whose part-time retirement job is "The First 100 Years" -- short historical pieces for the local NBC station. One of her pieces was an interview of the local guy. He had the original check from Disney -- he wisely realized that the check itself would eventually be worth immensely more than the money he'd have gotten by cashing it. -- Which Disney might have reconed on to begin with.) Jean - My roommate says to check out Xoom.com. He says the space is unlimited (rather than Geocities' 11 meg) and that their use agreement says waht Geo used to say. MY own comment... for how long? Karen - >of S~G filk song which mentioned the Mickland name. It would be in the >Sime/Gen Songbook some 19 years ago. I ordered the S~G songbook about 13 years ago and it did not survive one of the subsequent moves. Is it still in print? If not, would you be interested in sending me a copy for me to scan and send you or Marge or Jenn to post? Mary Lou >Mickland's first name is "Dee" Thanks. Jeff Hall >the provider's hand down to you. I think the term "you get what you pay for" Unfortunately. And even if you pay to maintain it on someone else's server (eg as part of your ISP bill), you still have a few rights that the freebie sites don't give. "Jenn V." How are domains apportioned in Australia? Do they go through Internic (at least for verification of non-duplicates)? Here, the problem isn't getting it -- it's something like $70 or $100 for the first 2 years adn then $35 a year after, and anyone with an email address can apply. The problem is servers charging monthly fees to "host" the domain. Which is basically "Okay, we'll do the routing whatever that directs stuff to our machine." Unfortunately, the current attitude seems to be "Domain names are the purview of businesses. THey're there to make people money. So let's really charge them for hosting." I look forward to a shift from there to a situation where most private individuals have domain names just so they can move from one point to another and take their "location" with them. Question for you and Dancer: server-wise, what is the "system expense" of hosting a domain, as opposed to running the same account as an X@yourdomain? Does it hold a K of hard drive space? A meg? 10? And does it tie up more ram in the computer than an X@yourdomain? I'm not talking about multiple bandwidth... I don't think my page gets any more _traffic_ due to my domain name than it would with an @someoneelse. We've never been able to get a straight answer, and our guess is that the current server charges for domain hosting (as opposed to site hosting) is inflated on an order of sevearal thousand times its actual system commitment. For us (roommate and I) we are allowed 5 meg of site space in our regular rate. But for the domain hosting -- E's got a special arrangement because 2 of the ones he hosts are non-profit and the other 2 aren't business sites. He's saying the going rate for domain hosting is over $60/month. IN ADDITION to basic use rate. If my roommate did not create and maintain my web page, I would not have one. LIke many, I detest that kind of twiddling with files. HE loves it. >Again, it is the broken contract and the agreement under duress that is >the problem here. And i'ts just a matter of time before it is fought and shot down. Not the change, but the lack of fair notice and the theft of ability to remove. Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin Please do not send me _Any_ unsolicited .exe files. They will be deleted unexecuted. www.wingedharper.com ICQ 21238115 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:49:48 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jeff Hall I was noticing alot of the links on the simgen.com don't work. I keep trying and nothings happens. I see now why Jean suggested a "link checker" :]. I can see the New agreement with Lyco's has generated a great deal of conversation and somethings I agree to and others I don't. When I made the suggestion about putting peoples webpages on the simgen server, I didn't realize you folks were already in the process of doing so sorry for "jumping the gun. Also, I just read the story on the net written by Cherri L. Munoz And boy what a story! Got warm and fuzzy over it. I really hate talent only because I have so little of it :] (just kidding so don't take it personal ) Anyway just thought I would put my 2 cents in. You folks have a very save 4th of July and will talk to you again....... Jeff ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occassion at http://greetings.xoom.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:57:42 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Veraik In-Reply-To: <199907030349.UAA21585@www1.xoommail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Also, I just read the story on the net written by >Cherri L. Munoz And boy what a story! Got warm and fuzzy >over it. I really hate talent only because I have so little >of it :] (just kidding so don't take it personal ) Anyway >just thought I would put my 2 cents in. You folks have a >very save 4th of July and will talk to you again....... > >Jeff Jeff, Thank you so much for the compliment. You have me bawling my eyes out. You have no idea how much this means to me. Thank you again. :) Cherri aka Veraik ambrov Zeor "My Life is My Own" http://www.j51.com/~zeor/life.html A Sime~Gen Novel ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 18:21:24 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Domain hosting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jaye wrote: > How are domains apportioned in Australia? Do they go through Internic (at least for verification of non-duplicates)? They go through an Australian version of Internic. I forget what it is, but it's the same basic system. And ours, of course, are all ..au. (Sime~Gen would be simegen.com.au if it was registered in Australia.) (US domains *technically* should be .us) > Question for you and Dancer: server-wise, what is the "system expense" of hosting a domain, as opposed to running the same account as an X@yourdomain? Does it hold a K of hard drive space? A meg? 10? And does it tie up more ram in the computer than an X@yourdomain? I'm not talking about multiple bandwidth... I don't think my page gets any more _traffic_ due to my domain name than it would with an @someoneelse. > We've never been able to get a straight answer, and our guess is that the current server charges for domain hosting (as opposed to site hosting) is inflated on an order of sevearal thousand times its actual system commitment. *SYSTEM* expense is negligible. *HUMAN* expense often winds up being considerable. An easy domain is one where the domain points to a single machine at the customer's site, managed by the customer (who makes up his own accounts, email addresses, manages his own DNS so you wind up just being a secondary, never moves his machine or does so only rarely, etc etc etc). A difficult domain is one who expects you to make the accounts, email addresses, manage his DNS. One who shifts ISPs from time to time. One who, in short, uses up several hours of a techie's time every month. Or even every day. > For us (roommate and I) we are allowed 5 meg of site space in our regular rate. But for the domain hosting -- E's got a special arrangement because 2 of the ones he hosts are non-profit and the other 2 aren't business sites. He's saying the going rate for domain hosting is over $60/month. IN ADDITION to basic use rate. That's because of the difficult domains. Hardware costs are negligible. Human costs are expensive. And domain management costs /human/ time. And difficult domains outnumber easy domains. Jenn V. -- Netiquette: The operating manual for the internet. It's not written to censor, but to prevent further damage. Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 18:22:24 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Hall wrote: > > I was noticing alot of the links on the simgen.com > don't work. I keep trying and nothings happens. I see now > why Jean suggested a "link checker" :]. You don't feel like walking the links and sending Marge or I the URLS which have bad links, and what the links are? Jenn V. -- Netiquette: The operating manual for the internet. It's not written to censor, but to prevent further damage. Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 18:23:11 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Veraik wrote: > Jeff wrote: > > Also, I just read the story on the net written by > >Cherri L. Munoz And boy what a story! Got warm and fuzzy > >over it. > Jeff, > Thank you so much for the compliment. You have me bawling my eyes out. > You have no idea how much this means to me. Thank you again. :) Got some good talent here, don't we? Jenn V. -- Netiquette: The operating manual for the internet. It's not written to censor, but to prevent further damage. Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 09:40:31 +0000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Marge Subject: Re: service providers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LadyBlue If you want a free website now, contact me in email. It would have to have some Sime~gen fan content, but other than that our rules are few. There's a link to the webmaster agreement on the top page. Marge ladyblue wrote: > At 12:00 AM 7/3/99 +1000, Jenn wrote > > >Dancer had a thought about a way to manage a not-quite-free geocities-ish > >site which DOES pay for itself. If he thinks he can do it, we just might. > > Please do. I would much rather pay you guys that the slow ridiculous guys > I pay now! > > course, although I have space to put up a web page, and have for years, I > have never done it. I even know lots of the things I would put on it, but > I have never figured out how to use the programs I would need to put up a > webpage. Just another example of "creative" meets "tech," and "tech" > loses. ;-) > > Later > > Kate > > ********************************* > It's Always Something > -Roseanne Rosannadanna > > Kate Kirk ladyblue@iquest.net > ********************************* > > ---------- > You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. > To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to > LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text > "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". > ---------- -- **************************************************************** webmaster@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com Please allow 3 business days for the fullfillment of requests **************************************************************** ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 10:33:44 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Veraik In-Reply-To: <377DC86F.251BB90E@simegen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jeff wrote: >> > Also, I just read the story on the net written by >> >Cherri L. Munoz And boy what a story! Got warm and fuzzy >> >over it. Cherri wrote: >> Thank you so much for the compliment. You have me bawling my eyes out. >> You have no idea how much this means to me. Thank you again. :) Jenn wrote: >Got some good talent here, don't we? Oh MY!!! You have me crying all over again. Cherri aka Veraik ambrov Zeor "My Life is My Own" http://www.j51.com/~zeor/life.html A Sime~Gen Novel ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:28:54 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 2 Jul 1999 to 3 Jul 1999 (#1999-183) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jeff - I love Cherri's story too. It's one of my 2 or 3 favorites of all the fanfic in this universe -- - which means anywhere. Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin Please do not send me _Any_ unsolicited .exe files. They will be deleted unexecuted. www.wingedharper.com ICQ 21238115 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:46:25 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jeff Hall Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 2 Jul 1999 to 3 Jul 1999 (#1999-183) Jaye wrote: > Jeff - > I love Cherri's story too. It's one of my 2 or 3 favorites of all the fanfic in this universe -- - which means anywhere. Well Cherri, looks like you need to do more of this since it appears to be a hit :]. It was strange reading on the net, keep feeling like I should have had a book in my hand. Ok I will make a deal with you talented people out there. You write and I will read them :]. Have a good 4th. ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occassion at http://greetings.xoom.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 22:50:27 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 10:33:44 -0700 Veraik writes: >Jeff wrote: >>> > Also, I just read the story on the net written by >>> >Cherri L. Munoz And boy what a story! Got warm and fuzzy >>> >over it. > >Cherri wrote: >>> Thank you so much for the compliment. You have me bawling my eyes >out. >>> You have no idea how much this means to me. Thank you again. :) > >Jenn wrote: >>Got some good talent here, don't we? > >Oh MY!!! You have me crying all over again. Don't cry--go write some more stories! Your audience is waiting. Jean All opinions expressed in this post are my own unless otherwise indicated. How I love your brown-eyed madness. Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 02:30:49 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 2 Jul 1999 to 3 Jul 1999 (#1999-183) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << Jeff wrote: Well Cherri, looks like you need to do more of this since it appears to be a hit :]. It was strange reading on the net, keep feeling like I should have had a book in my hand. Ok I will make a deal with you talented people out there. You write and I will read them :]. Have a good 4th. >> And I'll put them on the Companion in Zeor Website. I'm considering closing #13 now, at some 60 pages of material, and starting #14. I'd like the issues to stay a manageable size and expense, should they go to print like #12 is planning to. -- Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:03:10 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: ladyblue Subject: where's the great story? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jeff wrote: >Also, I just read the story on the net written by >Cherri L. Munoz And boy what a story! Ok, where is it. Webaddress, please!! thanks Kate ********************************* It's Always Something -Roseanne Rosannadanna Kate Kirk ladyblue@iquest.net ********************************* ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:26:49 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: ladyblue Subject: website In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Marge wrote: >LadyBlue > If you want a free website now, contact me in email. It would have to have >some Sime~gen fan content, but other than that our rules are few. There's a >link to the webmaster agreement on the top page. Marge -- i'd love it -- BBL (after vacation) to talk to you more! I will certainly read the "contract" first!! ********************************* It's Always Something -Roseanne Rosannadanna Kate Kirk ladyblue@iquest.net ********************************* ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:22:03 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: where's the great story? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.simegen.com/In-T/RimonsLibrary/mylifeis.html Is Cherri Munoz's Sime~Gen novel -- she worked with me on it for many years, and finally got it RIGHT. She's AMAZING. You should have seen what she started with! And she made this wonderful novel!!! JL ----- Original Message ----- From: ladyblue To: Sent: Sunday, July 04, 1999 10:03 AM Subject: where's the great story? > Jeff wrote: > > >Also, I just read the story on the net written by > >Cherri L. Munoz And boy what a story! > > Ok, where is it. Webaddress, please!! > > thanks > > Kate > > ********************************* > It's Always Something > -Roseanne Rosannadanna > > Kate Kirk ladyblue@iquest.net > ********************************* > > ---------- > You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. > To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to > LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text > "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". > ---------- > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:03:19 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: ladyblue Subject: star wars names Comments: cc: captain@iquest.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Back in May, Colleen wrote: >>>> On the needlework newsgroup I'm on (we tend to have lots of OT discussion interspersed with the needlepoint and counted cross stitch talk), lots of people are having some fun making up Star Wars names. To get your Star Wars name, you take the first three letters of your first name and the name (model) of your automobile. The last prescription medication you were on is the name of your home planet. So I'm Col Escort of Triphasil (or of Allegra D) and my husband is Mik Escort of Vicodin. Very silly, but the people on the ng are having fun with it and it's provided me with some laughs. (Lots of folks from planet Demerol, which, they say, is a very interesting place to live. <) (Also, several people from the clan Nocar.) <<<<<<<< Now, somebody sent me this -- same sort of deal . . . >>>> Check this out.....What's your Star Wars Name? It appears that Lucas uses a formula to create all those stupid names you see in the Star Wars trilogy and Phantom Menace (Jar Jar Binks, Obi Wan, etc.). Well... I have gotten a hold of the formula! To see what your Star Wars name is, follow the steps below... Star Wars First Name 1: Take the first 3 letters of your last name. 2: Add to that, the first 2 letters of your first name. Star Wars Last Name 1: Take the first 2 letters of your mother's maiden name. 2: Add to that the first 3 letters of the name of the town or city you were born in. There you go! There's your Star Wars Name. Write your Star Wars Name below so everyone can laugh at your name with you! <<<<<<<< Mine is Kirka McInd (I think Kirka M'kind would be a better spelling) Using Colleen's system in part, I would be from the planet Zyrtek currently; however, I have lived on Vicoden myself in the past. Hi MiK, nice to see you again! ;-) Kate Kirk ********************************* It's Always Something -Roseanne Rosannadanna Kate Kirk ladyblue@iquest.net ********************************* ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:46:51 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: LTutihasi@AOL.COM Subject: service providers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a friend with very limited resources. She currently has e-mail through a BBS, but it appears it will be going out of business next month. Can anyone recommend a reliable free or very low-cost ISP? She does eventually want to access the net. Thanks. Laurraine Tutihasi ltutihasi@aol.com http://members.aol.com/ltutihasi Time spent laughing is time spent with the gods. -Japanese proverb ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:21:54 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: service providers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LTutihasi@AOL.COM wrote: > > I have a friend with very limited resources. She currently has e-mail > through a BBS, but it appears it will be going out of business next month. > Can anyone recommend a reliable free or very low-cost ISP? She does > eventually want to access the net. What country, what region? Jenn V. -- Netiquette: The operating manual for the internet. It's not written to censor, but to prevent further damage. Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 22:32:19 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Netdancer Subject: Re: service providers In-Reply-To: <378024D2.CE33A58E@simegen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:21 PM 7/5/99 +1000, you wrote: >LTutihasi@AOL.COM wrote: >> >> I have a friend with very limited resources. She currently has e-mail >> through a BBS, but it appears it will be going out of business next month. >> Can anyone recommend a reliable free or very low-cost ISP? She does >> eventually want to access the net. > >What country, what region? > > >Jenn V. Free internet connection in the US: NetZero - http://www.netzero.com/ FreeInet - http://go.freei.net/www/map.asp Tritium Net - http://www.tritium.net/ Free is relative. They'll never charge you anything, but you have to agree that they can show you advertizing from the sponsers who pay for all this. :> If you really need the access, it's likely worth it. Kennet ---------------------------------------- "The very existence of flame throwers proves that sometime, somewhere, somebody actually thought, "You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire, but I just can't reach them."" -George Carlin ---------------------------------------- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:35:38 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: star wars names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/4/99 2:01:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ladyblue@IQUEST.NET writes: << There you go! There's your Star Wars Name. Write your Star Wars Name below so everyone can laugh at your name with you! >> I guess that makes me Paran Macgl, although I kinda liked the thought of being Ann Brat of Tetracycline. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:34:00 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Jar Jar the Devil Comments: To: cormo@juno.com, helen.roulston@murraystate.edu, rallen@utm.EdU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You will at first think this is a joke when you read it, but it isn't. http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0899/jar.html Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. http://www.simegen.com/Jean --->****Aug. 25-29, 1999, reach me at Jean1@Juno.com****<--- Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:39:33 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Jar Jar story a Hoax Comments: To: cormo@juno.com, helen.roulston@murraystate.edu, rallen@utm.EdU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry--I investigated further. The Jar Jar masturbation doll story turns out to be a joke after all. The person who sent it to me took it seriously, and from THAT PAGE it appears to be serious--but it's part of a parody website. That's a relief! Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. http://www.simegen.com/Jean --->****Aug. 25-29, 1999, reach me at Jean1@Juno.com****<--- Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:01:41 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: service providers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Juno Basic is still free, and so are the phone calls if you live in any reasonable-sized city. Nashville has two numbers. Kokomo, IN has one. There is also a great new service whereby you get Juno Gold free (attachments and no truncating of overlong messages) if you agree to pay 3 cents a minute for web access--no monthly fee. There is no requirement ever actually to USE any of that web access! So you can have full-service e-mail free. I do it--and when I travel, I do use the web access to download my e-mail from my other accounts--maybe five minutes every other day--worth fifteen cents. If you want Juno Web, unlimited hours per mo., get free Juno e-mail, then keep watching the ads till they finally run the one for a full year at $9.95/mo. and grab it. DON'T sign up for the $19.95/mo that they will first offer. Wait for the ad for either the 3-cents-a-minute or the $9.95/mo., whichever is best for your situation. Get the unlimited if you want to surf the web, build a website, or chat. Juno info is at the bottom of this post, below my sig. Jean On Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:46:51 EDT LTutihasi@AOL.COM writes: >I have a friend with very limited resources. She currently has >e-mail >through a BBS, but it appears it will be going out of business next >month. >Can anyone recommend a reliable free or very low-cost ISP? She does >eventually want to access the net. > >Thanks. > >Laurraine Tutihasi >ltutihasi@aol.com >http://members.aol.com/ltutihasi > >Time spent laughing is time spent with the gods. -Japanese proverb > >---------- >You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >"unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >---------- All opinions expressed in this post are my own unless otherwise indicated. http://www.simegen.com/Jean How I love your brown-eyed madness. Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 08:51:15 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Netdancer Subject: Re: Jar Jar the Devil In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990705133400.0093a088@msumusik.mursuky.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:34 AM 7/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >You will at first think this is a joke when you read it, but it isn't. > >http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0899/jar.html > >Jean It's a spoof. I already checked this out from people posting about it to the Pagan NG's. Look at: http://www.landoverbaptist.org/ameri.html Kennet ---------------------------------------- "The very existence of flame throwers proves that sometime, somewhere, somebody actually thought, "You know, I really want to set those people over there on fire, but I just can't reach them."" -George Carlin ---------------------------------------- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 07:38:04 -0800 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: Haste to the wedding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Folks, For those of you who didn't understand Cherri's comment the other day, I will be getting married this coming Saturday. This is also why I haven't had time to even think about writing anything else in the past six months or so. Den and Rital fans might be interested to know that the retired Unitarian minister who will officiate at the ceremony, Ted Webb, was the inspiration for my Rational Deist minister in SHIFT OF MEANS. Strangely enough, I heard Ted give a philosophical lecture shortly after I finished writing that section of the novel, and was astonished at how closely I'd come to capturing him. Substantial sections of what he said could have been lifted directly from my text. On Saturday, of course, he will actually be reading my text. Kaas Baichtal has posted pictures of my fiancee, our cats, our home (currently undergoing massive renovation) and the two vintage wedding dresses I will be wearing at http://www.baichtal.com/kaas/autobio/house.html After the ceremony, of course, there will be more pictures posted. These will be more authentic, since I will be wearing contacts and a Gibson Girl hairstyle, and Bud will be wearing the closest we could get to a period tux. We may have one of my period piano, the Black Monster, as well. I will be in touch again late next week. Mary Lou Mendum ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:27:48 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Haste to the wedding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mary Lou Mendum wrote: > > Folks, > > For those of you who didn't understand Cherri's comment the other day, I > will be getting married this coming Saturday. best wishes, Mary Lou. Jenn V. -- Netiquette: The operating manual for the internet. It's not written to censor, but to prevent further damage. Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:53:12 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Donna Subject: Need help...Sorry for bandwidth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I am receiving two of each message. Help, I think one would be sufficient. Thanks, Donna hozdmb@radixnet.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 15:27:17 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Haste to the wedding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/5/99 10:27:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlmendum@DAVIS.COM writes: << For those of you who didn't understand Cherri's comment the other day, I will be getting married this coming Saturday. This is also why I haven't had time to even think about writing anything else in the past six months or so. >> Congratulations, and have a long and happy marriage! ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 16:41:56 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "D. Yon Klempner" Subject: Re: where's the great story? Comments: To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are GREAT stories EVERYWHERE and I am TOTALLY blown away!!!!! Greetings, JL and all! I am a long-time fan . . . ever since the first publication of "House of Zeor" which got me totally hooked on your universe. We corresponded briefly back in 1984, when I participated in the writer's round robin. Then, my life got complicated and I dropped out of sight without a word and a lot of water's gone under the bridge since then. I've followed the published novels, but had no idea any other full-length Gen/Sime works had been completed since "Zelerod's Doom". Until I recently wandered onto the Sime/Gen web-ring. I have spent the last few weeks totally gorging on all the marvelous stuff that's been developed in the last 15 years. I've been averaging about 3 hours sleep a night because once I start reading I can't stop. I think I have found most of it by now . . . and reread some of my favorites repeatedly. My housemate giggles at me when she goes for a pit stop at 4 a.m. but my cats are not amused. I want to thank you and all the people who have put so much work in--both into writing the fiction and the development of the web sites that make it accessible. This is the best surprise present I've ever had! There is so much that is wonderful it is hard to know where to begin with specific comments. I think "The Only Good Sime" and the other Frevven stories are probably the best of the best, combining engaging characters, a taut, gripping plot and marvelously skilled wordcraft. My only complaint is that, in a way, they are too good . . . As with "Unto Zeor Forever," the story is so complete, so intricately imagined and so perfectly described there is little for the reader to add. Thank you, Kerry! Probably my personal favorite is "Icy Nager." This is a little rougher around the edges, but there are scenes and passages that just take my breath away. Like "House of Zeor," this story hits on some themes that push personal buttons, and I find myself wanting to imagine the rest, fill in all the blanks about Evan and Rafe's lives before and after . . . I seem to remember reviewing a draft of "Partners" back in '84 and debating how merciful I should be in my comments. I never expected a finished work so marvelous I would read it over five times the day I found it and then every day for a week. Thank you, Andrea! I was fascinated by the characters of Klairon and Talbert in "Easy as Hop, Skip, and Jump" . I realize this work dates back to 1977. From notes elsewhere, I see you planned a novel they visit Yone's World. JL, I really want to hear the rest of this story! Mary Lou Mendum's stories about Eskalie and Tallin had me laughing out loud with delight, and I appreciated the irony of having a heroine for whom love doesn't conquer all. I am aware that, while this material is all new to me, in some cases it was actually written over a decade ago, and people may have moved on. I am overwhelmed by the sheer amount of material that is posted here. If anyone wants feedback on specific work, e-mail me and I would be happy to oblige. If you have something posted and I haven't found it yet, just point me to it! My background is that I have a decade's experience producing instructional videotapes for schools, hospitals and government agencies and have won several awards in this arena. In the last few years, I decided technology was passing me by and decided to retrain. I currently do computer technical support while I am studying for my MCSE certifications. -----Original Message----- From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM Date: Sunday, July 04, 1999 9:27 AM Subject: Re: where's the great story? >http://www.simegen.com/In-T/RimonsLibrary/mylifeis.html > >Is Cherri Munoz's Sime~Gen novel -- she worked with me on it for many >years, and finally got it RIGHT. > >She's AMAZING. You should have seen what she started with! > >And she made this wonderful novel!!! > >JL >----- Original Message ----- >From: ladyblue >To: >Sent: Sunday, July 04, 1999 10:03 AM >Subject: where's the great story? > > >> Jeff wrote: >> >> >Also, I just read the story on the net written by >> >Cherri L. Munoz And boy what a story! >> >> Ok, where is it. Webaddress, please!! >> >> thanks >> >> Kate >> >> ********************************* >> It's Always Something >> -Roseanne Rosannadanna >> >> Kate Kirk ladyblue@iquest.net >> ********************************* >> >> ---------- >> You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >> To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >> LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >> "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >> ---------- >> > >---------- >You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >"unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >---------- > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:01:35 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: where's the great story? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi --- Have you hit the A Companion in Zeor website yet? We're still alive and kicking but now on the web (with a paper issue of #12 in the works). New story from Marge Robbins also in progress. check out for our index. www.simegen.com/in-t/virtualtecton/CZ Welcome home again, Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 16:51:50 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Juno, new URL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ooops! Apparently one of the perks of moving up from the free Juno e-mail to the 3-cents-a-minute Juno Web is that Juno stops putting its own ad at the bottom of each of your posts! To find out all about Juno and download its free software, go to http://www.juno.com . Also, I have just moved my personal website from Geocities, whose new owner Yahoo refuses to remove that grab-your-intellectual-property clause, to simegen.com. You can now find it at http://www.simegen.com/Jean . Jean All opinions expressed in this post are my own unless otherwise indicated. Visit my website, http://www.simegen.com/Jean How I love your brown-eyed madness. Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:49:39 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "D. Yon Klempner" Subject: Re: where's the great story? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I found it. Have worked my way through all the fiction . . . but not all the graphics or other links! Glad to hear from you again! It's a shame I'm such a voracious reader . . . I've devoured 15 years of work in 2 weeks and now I guess I'll just have to wait for stuff to get written . . . Maybe I should have rationed it . . . --Yon -----Original Message----- From: Karen Litman To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM Date: Monday, July 05, 1999 5:30 PM Subject: Re: where's the great story? >Hi --- > >Have you hit the A Companion in Zeor website yet? We're still alive and >kicking but now on the web (with a paper issue of #12 in the works). New >story from Marge Robbins also in progress. > >check out for our index. >www.simegen.com/in-t/virtualtecton/CZ > >Welcome home again, >Karen Litman > >---------- >You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >"unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >---------- > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:06:59 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: Haste to the wedding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congratulations Have a wonderful wedding and a great life! fishydu ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:48:36 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Help -- Listserve Commands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know this has been mentioned before, but I can't locate where my printout of the directions walked to. THIS time I will write them into a notebook I have with computer information in it. Since I am going away for about 10 days on Wednesday, I would like to set all my Sime~Gen lists to "Digest" and upon my retu