========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:26:28 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Minicon review. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--__JNP_000_0a93.13d2.5ab3 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_0a93.13d2.5ab3 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tried sending this once and it didn't work, so I'll try again. I wasn't able to make it to this year's Minicon, but here's a review from someone who did go. And, yes, I did get permission to post this to the list, but don't forward this any farther without getting her permission. Let me know if you do and I'll give you her e-mail address so you can contact her. Larry Ulrey ulrey@juno.com ----__JNP_000_0a93.13d2.5ab3 Content-Type: text/plain; name="review1.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TWluaWNvbiBUcmlwIFJlcG9ydA0KDQpieSBMaW5kYSBKLiBEdW5uDQoNCiAgICAgICAgR3JlZyBh bmQgSSBsZWZ0IEluZGlhbmFwb2xpcyBhYm91dCAxOjAwIHAubS4sIGFmdGVyIGZpcnN0IHRyYWNr aW5nDQpkb3duIGFuZCBjYXB0dXJpbmcgdHdvIGVzY2FwZWQgY2F0cyB3aG8gd2VyZSBoaWRpbmcg aW4gdGhlIG1pbmktYmFybi4gIEkNCnRvb2sgdGhlIGZpcnN0IHR3byBob3VycyBvZiBkcml2aW5n IGFuZCBlZmZlY3RpdmVseSBtYW5hZ2VkIHRvIGRvZGdlIHRoYXQNCmR1dHkgZm9yIHRoZSByZW1h aW5kZXIgb2YgdGhlIHRyaXAuICBXZSBzdG9wcGVkIGFib3V0IHR3byBob3VycyBvdXRzaWRlDQpN aW5uZWFwb2xpcywgc3BlbmRpbmcgdGhlIG5pZ2h0IGF0IGEgUmFtYWRhIElubiB0aGF0IGJvYXN0 ZWQgYSBwb29sIGFuZCBob3QNCnR1Yi4gIFVuZm9ydHVuYXRlbHksIHRoZXkgY2xvc2VkIHRoZSBo b3QgdHViIGFuZCBwb29sIGFib3V0IGZpdmUgbWludXRlcyANCmFmdGVyIHdlIGNoZWNrZWQgaW4g c28gd2UgaGFkIGFuIGVhcmx5IG1vcm5pbmcgcmVsYXhhdGlvbiB0aW1lIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuDQph IGxhdGUgbmlnaHQgcmVsYXhhdGlvbiBpbiBhIGhvdCB0dWIuICBUcnV0aCBiZSB0b2xkLCBpdCB3 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dGVkLg0K ----__JNP_000_0a93.13d2.5ab3-- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:15:12 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Instant Messages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-04-29 18:43:06 EDT, you write: << To those people who IM'ed me this morning and to whom I didn't reply - sorry about that. I had to disconnect my modem in a hurry to make a phone call and didn't look at the screen before I did. When I finished with the call and returned to the screen there were all these IM's waiting and by the time I reconnected almost all of you had gone. Sorry - didn't mean to be rude. Eliza >> We all have days like that. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:23:55 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Fw: Pun from the creator of B5 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-04-30 08:30:29 EDT, you write: << Suffice to say it's a tremendous honor. Finally, I'm a rock star," wrote Straczynski. >> GROAN (Chuckle) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:20:57 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC -- Herbal & etc. list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been given permission to pass this along. Maybe someone can use the information. ---- Karen Litman ========== Karen please share this with anyone that you think would be interested Eileen Nauman is the moderator of a list she calls Athena. Eileen lives in Arizona, and is a practicing Homeopath and an EMT with the local rescue squad. The list rotates between several topics, and one can only get answers to questions pertaining to the topic of the week. there is usually two weeks of Homeopathy, then there will be a week of herbs and gem elixirs, then a metaphysical week, then astrology week, and I think there is another one but I can't think of what it is. These topics rotate, but there is always something interesting going on. Eileen also has a web site where she sells herbs, essences, homeopathic remedies, and mineral specimens, among other things. There are lots of things to download for free at her web site, like herbal info , gemstone info, etc. To get on the list send an e-mail to: Athena-Request@medicinegarden.com (nothing in the subject line) in the message area write Join Athena or just check out the web site medicinegarden.com you can get to Athena through it. >> ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 20:04:16 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: OT: The End Of The Raven MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last week someone posted a humorous poem called "The End of the Raven." I believe this was the list I saw it on. I have found a little book on my shelf called "Poetry For Cats: The Definitive Anthology of Distinguished Feline Verse" by Henry Beard. "The End of the Raven" is from this book. I do not know if it is still in print, but if it is, I recommend it highly. It was printed by Villard Books in 1994. Besides "The End of the Raven" there are dozens of other clever parodies of equally famous poems, including "Grendel's Dog, from Beocat", "Vet, Be Not Proud", "Dover Sole" and "Do Not Go Peaceable to That Damn Vet." In addition to recommending this book, I would ask any of you who have further circulated this poem to send this information to everyone you have sent copies of the poem to. I hope to see this very clever author, Henry Beard, get full credit for his work. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:39:13 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: OT: The End Of The Raven MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann Partridge wrote: > > Last week someone posted a humorous poem called "The End of the Raven." I > believe this was the list I saw it on. I have found a little book on my > shelf called "Poetry For Cats: The Definitive Anthology of Distinguished > Feline Verse" by Henry Beard. "The End of the Raven" is from this book. I > do not know if it is still in print, but if it is, I recommend it highly. It > was printed by Villard Books in 1994. Besides "The End of the Raven" there > are dozens of other clever parodies of equally famous poems, including > "Grendel's Dog, from Beocat", "Vet, Be Not Proud", "Dover Sole" and "Do Not > Go Peaceable to That Damn Vet." > > In addition to recommending this book, I would ask any of you who have > further circulated this poem to send this information to everyone you have > sent copies of the poem to. I hope to see this very clever author, Henry > Beard, get full credit for his work. I believe that I have read this at some point in an earlier book of Beard's work. Yes. Recommended most highly. Beard is good. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 21:03:59 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "farlie.dragon" Subject: Re: The End Of The Raven MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks! I will look for a copy of the book when I go searching for my missing Sime/Gen books! Farlie ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Partridge To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 1999 8:04 PM Subject: OT: The End Of The Raven > I hope to see this very clever author, Henry > Beard, get full credit for his work. > > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 22:22:32 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: LTutihasi@AOL.COM Subject: Minicon review. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received the forwarded convention report as a string of unreadable scrambled letters. Laurraine Tutihasi ltutihasi@aol.com http://members.aol.com/ltutihasi ---------------------------------- The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion. -Thomas Paine ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 07:35:44 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Update on my mom. Comments: To: sssa@sunflower.com, Straf@prairienet.org, Andya@indy.net, 10306.344@compuserve.com, r.mcgillem@worldnet.att.net, cherylm@wibc.com, Dave_Henninger_and_Robin_Brunner@compuserve.com, dciurej@worldnet.att.net, gas@kdac.com, thompson@in.net, sassielass@iquest.net, Hawkes@in.net, KHohmanST@aol.com, americanjew@juno.com, LSchwartz@webtv.net, 102523.3713@compuserve.com, ShidlerT@SMTP.ESC.IPS.K112.IN.US, msuess@indy.net, Chikester@worldnet.att.net, pyatt.7@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu, s.dale@worldnet.att.net, smparker@iupui.edu, vjmerri@iquest.net, rivendel33@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit She now seems _much_ better. Physically, she's still eating (although still not much, but she never was a heavy eater) and seems to be getting stronger. She does still tire easily and she still has several nutritional deficiencies, but most of the time, if she doesn't overdo it, she doesn't even need the walker to walk. The major concern left physically is the _possibility_ of colon cancer. She's having tests done, including a surgical procedure on an outpatient basis May 27th., to check that out. At the same time they do that, they're also inserting a probe into her stomach to check for the possibility of an ulcer. I don't really think she has either condition, but it's best to be sure. Until we know, it's still a concern. Mentally, she also seems better now that she's home. Her time in the hospital is a blur to her. She doesn't really remember it. Although she's still not quite the way she was, at least some of this may be due to the medicines she's on. As far as I can tell, she doesn't know _seem_ to be delusional. At least she doesn't have some of the delusions she did have. If she still has any of the others, she at least hasn't said anything to indicate that she still has them. So I'm cautiously optimistic that it won't be necessary for me to need to make my temporary guardianship of her permanent. It does seem that we may be able to avoid having to put her in a nursing home. Larry Ulrey ulrey@juno.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:22:47 +0000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Marge Subject: History project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've posted some more stuff on the history site. http://www.simegen.com/in-t/virtualtecton/sghistory I've added a page for fan activities and one for the zines. Again my thanks to Ronnie Bob for scaning and doing a large chunk of the htmling. I probably could not do this without him,. Marge -- Marge@simegen.com http:/www.simegen.com/in-t/virtualtecton/Household/chanel/ http:/www.simegen.com/in-t/rimonslibrary/ http:/www.simegen.com/in-t/virtualtecton/sghistory/ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 02:35:04 -0900 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Paul Sharrock Subject: OT: The Jame T Kirk Search Engine. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sorry to post yet another off topic post to this list. Since I know of lot of people here are fans though I couldn't resist it. ----- The James Kirk Search Engine http://search2.intercom.com.au/trek/ The James Kirk search engine is on a never ending mission to seek out new files and new information, to boldly go where no search engine has gone before. Actually it's just a way to search for Star Trek information on the Web. The database includes several dozen Star Trek pages, just about every Star Trek related Usenet newsgroups and a handful of FTP sites. ---- Paul. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:57:52 -0900 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Paul Sharrock Subject: TECH: Electronic Ink Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed ELECTRONIC INK DEBUT The first use of electronic ink, hailed as a replacement for printing, went into action today - on an advertising sign in a JC Penney store in Marlborough, Massachusetts. The electronic display, 3mm thick and 6 feet x 4 feet, can be changed every 10 seconds through a wireless Internet connection. It uses a breakthrough technology discovered at MIT, and works by changing colour and shape when subjected to an electronic signal. The ultimate aim: a book of blank pages which display various texts when downloaded from the Internet. See http://www.eink.com/pr_index.html Paul. S. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 23:16:39 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Offtopic: List people's locations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE95BB.0109E040" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE95BB.0109E040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone on the list here from Oklahoma? Sound off and let us know you're = okay. Cheryl<---who is still waiting word on her neice and family and aunts = and uncle in OKC. [mom and sis are okay thank God] Cheryl Wolverton > Risa's Rebel http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 A Mother's Love [April 99] For The Love of Zach [Sept 99]* For The Love of Hawk * *[Hill Creek, Texas Series] http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/index.html=20 DNQ w/o permission or a letter informing of intent please. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE95BB.0109E040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anyone = on the list=20 here from Oklahoma?  Sound off and let us know you're=20 okay.
 
 
 
Cheryl<---who=20 is still waiting word on her neice and family and aunts and uncle in=20 OKC.
 
[mom = and sis are=20 okay thank God]
 

Cheryl Wolverton  ><IXOYE=20 *>
Risa's Rebel

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037

A = Mother's=20 Love   [April 99]
For The Love of Zach   [Sept=20 99]*
For The Love of Hawk *

*[Hill Creek, Texas = Series]
http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/index.html=20

DNQ w/o permission or a letter = informing of=20 intent please.

 
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BE95BB.0109E040-- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 00:35:22 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: Offtopic: List people's locations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/3/99 9:15:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cherylwo@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: << Anyone on the list here from Oklahoma? Sound off and let us know you're okay. >> And those from Kansas too! ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:59:33 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Re: Offtopic: List people's locations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >From someone who is in Australia - What's happened!!!!!????? Eliza ~ concerened ~ At 00:35 4/05/99 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 5/3/99 9:15:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >cherylwo@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: > ><< Anyone on the list here from Oklahoma? Sound off and let us know you're >okay. > >> >And those from Kansas too! > >---------- >You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >"unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >---------- > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:17:32 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Offtopic: List people's locations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Cheryl Wolverton wrote: > > Anyone on the list here from Oklahoma? Sound off and let us know > you're okay. > > > > Cheryl<---who is still waiting word on her neice and family and aunts > and uncle in OKC. > > [mom and sis are okay thank God] I assume something happened there. Any clues? D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:50:26 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Offtopic: List people's locations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Cheryl Wolverton wrote: > > Anyone on the list here from Oklahoma? Sound off and let us know you're okay. Uh - something happened in Oklahoma today? Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 19:07:35 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: What happened in Oklahoma MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For the Aussies & such, Dancer just went and looked up a US news website: Category 5 tornadoes (the ones in the film Twister) hit Oklahoma and Kansas, a short time ago. For US folks: My mother told me what it was like when Cyclone Tracey hit Darwin. You have my sympathy - and my prayers. If anyone needs more physical help that we can give from this distance, /please/ let me know. Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 06:55:12 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Time Around the World Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You know that problem of trying to figure out what time it will be where you are when one of the simegen.com chats takes place? Here is a website that can help: http://www.hilink.com.au/times Click on your area of the world, then a city that you know to be in your time zone. You are given GMT (also known as UTC) and the time in that city. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 06:57:01 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Offtopic: List people's locations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:59 PM 05/04/1999 +1000, Eliza wrote: >From someone who is in Australia - What's happened!!!!!????? During last night, the worst tornados ever recorded killed more than 40 people in Oklahoma. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:19:33 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: What happened in Oklahoma In-Reply-To: <372EB8D7.5D99D1E@simegen.com> ooops. Sorry. Didn't mean to cause such an uproar. Was just really worried and thought we had one or two on the list here from Okla. They're still digging out, for you Aussies who probably don't see much of this. It cut a swatch through OKC miles long and up to 1/2 mile wide and I was simply worried some of our friends were caught in it. Cheryl Wolverton > Risa's Rebel http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 A Mother's Love [April 99] For The Love of Zach [Sept 99]* For The Love of Hawk * *[Hill Creek, Texas Series] http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/index.html DNQ w/o permission or a letter informing of intent please. >-----Original Message----- >From: A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom >[mailto:SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM]On Behalf Of Jenn V. >Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 4:08 AM >To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM >Subject: What happened in Oklahoma > > >For the Aussies & such, Dancer just went and looked up a US news website: > >Category 5 tornadoes (the ones in the film Twister) hit Oklahoma >and Kansas, a >short time ago. > >For US folks: My mother told me what it was like when Cyclone >Tracey hit Darwin. >You have my sympathy - and my prayers. >If anyone needs more physical help that we can give from this >distance, /please/ >let me know. > > > >Jenn V. >-- > 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. > 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law > >Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ > GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ > PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > >---------- >You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >"unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >---------- > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:28:50 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Offtopic: for information re: okla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE9610.86B4EDC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE9610.86B4EDC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable here, hope this helps explain http://www.oklahoman.com http://www.oklahoman.com/ Cheryl Wolverton > Risa's Rebel http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 A Mother's Love [April 99] For The Love of Zach [Sept 99]* For The Love of Hawk * *[Hill Creek, Texas Series] http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/index.html=20 DNQ w/o permission or a letter informing of intent please. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE9610.86B4EDC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
here, = hope this=20 helps explain
 
http://www.oklahoman.com
 
 
http://www.oklahoman.com/

Cheryl Wolverton  ><IXOYE=20 *>
Risa's Rebel

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037

A = Mother's=20 Love   [April 99]
For The Love of Zach   [Sept=20 99]*
For The Love of Hawk *

*[Hill Creek, Texas = Series]
http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/index.html=20

DNQ w/o permission or a letter = informing of=20 intent please.

 
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE9610.86B4EDC0-- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 00:46:52 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: What happened in Oklahoma MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cheryl Wolverton wrote: > > ooops. Sorry. Didn't mean to cause such an uproar. Was just really > worried and thought we had one or two on the list here from Okla. > > They're still digging out, for you Aussies who probably don't see much of > this. It cut a swatch through OKC miles long and up to 1/2 mile wide and I > was simply worried some of our friends were caught in it. We get a couple of our minor cities and major towns erased every now and again, but casualties are usually minimal. While a large cyclone can tear down virtually every building in a city, it doesn't have the sheer ferocity of a tornado, and we don't envy you those. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:39:33 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Colleen Maynard Subject: Something for Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The list has been awfully quiet lately! Thought I might try to stir some = discussion . This is apropos in light of the various discussions we've = had about independent booksellers dying off because they can't compete = with the industry giants. We have a similar situation here, but involving = a local video chain rather than a bookstore. Until recently there had been a local chain of video stores here - two or = three locations - that had existed for at least nine years, maybe longer. = They've recently gone out of business and while I haven't read an official = explanation as to why, I'm pretty sure the owner would say that it's = because he can't compete with the three big chains that have moved into = the area in the past few years. My POV is somewhat different, though. I = think they drove themselves out of business through a lack of customer = service. Their stores were not particularly clean, their videos weren't = in any semblence of alphabetical order (it was easier to go to the counter = and just ask if something was in stock, if you knew what you were looking = for), and they often cheated customers by charging late fees for items = that weren't overdue. (The cut off time for late fees was 6:00 p.m. - as = opposed to midnight for the big chains - and I think that they would allow = anything returned within the last 15 to 30 minutes to pile up on the = counter and not check them in until after 6:00 p.m. - thus collecting an = extra $3.00 per video. A customer wouldn't know he was charged with a = late fee till the next time he went to the store - and arguing with the = owner did no good - after all, he had it in his computer. I refused to go = back after the last time he did this to me.) When they were the only game in town, they could get away with things like = this because people who wanted videos had nowhere else to go. However, = when one big chain after another moved in, they should have changed their = behavior - cleaned up their stores, organized their selection, made sure = their clerks checked in videos as they were returned - maybe even push = back the return time. (The stores were open till 10:00 so there was no = apparent reason to make videos due at 6:00.) I believe they could've kept = their customer base - they were the only place that carried some tv series = (such as Dark Shadows - they had the entire collection) and also the only = place in town that rented "adult" videos. (Don't know where pornography = connoisseurs go now!) I know that the store I used to go to was the only = video rental store in that neighborhood, so for many people they were also = more convenient geographically. I don't think prices had anything to do = with people going elsewhere - just about every place in town except the = public library charged/charges the same, give or take 50 cents. I don't doubt that the owner of this local chain would like people to = believe that his business was killed by the big guys - but I'd say it = committed suicide. Interestingly, this is the second local business that's closed recently. = The other was a small movie theatre that ran second run movies for a = couple bucks a show. The owner claimed he couldn't compete with the big = chains. I believe there's some truth to that - but I believe he too = could've kept his customer base if he'd done things differently. The = women's restroom was always - I mean always, as far back as I can = remember - filfthy, the theatres themselves were not too clean, the = popcorn was made on Monday and lasted all week - by the weekend, it was = pretty stale. The last time I had their "butter flavored topping" I was = sick (and so was my husband - and the place itself was so icky by then = that he wouldn't go back). They generally cut the movies off before the = credits ran - hey, some of us watch those! They were doomed the minute one of the big chains turned it's mall 6-plex = into a $1.00 theatre with second-runs. (Clean restrooms! Clean theatres! = Fresh popcorn! What novel ideas!) But I don't think they had to be - = this place has been around for over 20 years and was a tradition with lots = of people, not to mention more geographically convenient to downtown than = any of the multiplexes. But they never did try to clean things up, even = when they came into direct competition with a 6-plex that cleaned their = toilets and kept fresh popcorn. How much can the manager really blame on = competition with the big guys? I realize that often when an independent business closes down, it really = is because they can't compete with the big chains. Our downtown bookstore = closed around the time Barnes & Noble came to town and I really don't = think there's anything they could've done to stay open. They were too = small, there's no way they could've provided any kind of caf=E9 - and = people (like me!) like that - the layout of the store didn't encourage = browsing, and downtown (except for the library) pretty much shuts down at = 6:00. Barnes & Noble is on the way to the mall and is open till 11:00. = No way the small store downtown could compete unless they wanted to invest = a huge amount of money in new quarters elsewhere and a much bigger staff. But I think sometimes it's just too easy for someone who doesn't practice = customer service or keeps, for example, a filfthy movie theatre, to blame = big business for their failures when they could be looking closer to home. Any thoughts, opinions, discussion? When you hear that a small business = has failed while large chains thrive in the same area, do you automatically= think "there goes another one, killed by big business", or do you give = any thought to other contributing factors? Do you feel obligated to = patronize small or independently owned businesses, even if they are = completely lacking in customer service? Feeling chatty today - and not a little bored! Colleen ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:13:42 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Something for Discussion In-Reply-To: from "Colleen Maynard" at May 5, 99 11:39:33 am Content-Type: text >I don't doubt that the owner of this local chain would like people to >believe that his business was killed by the big guys - but I'd say it >committed suicide. Yes. I think there _is_ a difference between "getting driven out by nasty stuff" and "getting driven out because someone else provides the same thing better/cheaper/larger." I'll get annoyed about the first, but not the second. I'm too busy taking advantage of all the wonderful new opportunities open to me. Do I miss the local B.Waldencrowns? No. Borders has a _much_ better selection and _much_ better atmosphere. Of course, that's just replacing one chain with a better chain -- but there are still independent bookstores I frequent, because either they specialize in something, or they're close and convenient, or the owner is fun to talk to. But, ultimately, the purpose of a retail store is to provide goods or services -- I should go after the best one. (I admit that monopoly becomes a problem when it's the only game in town and gets arrogant that way -- but that's another problem, and _not_ the same thing as someone becoming a monopoly because they plain did a better job than the competition -- they _deserve_ their success, in that case. And there are always little niches available, as long as the monopoly doesn't become an exclusive one backed by legal power.) Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:38:51 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Something for Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do I miss the local B.Waldencrowns? No. Borders has a _much_ better selection and _much_ better atmosphere. >> Hate to tell you this, but Waldenbooks and Borders are owned by the same company. We have both in our area, and both stores independently told me this. The reason for the difference in atmosphere and stock is to reach as wide a clientele as possible. Personally, I prefer Borders -- but the "Preferred Reader" card of Waldenbooks is also a nice perk. ---- Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:59:45 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Something for Discussion In-Reply-To: from "Karen Litman" at May 5, 99 01:38:51 pm Content-Type: text > Do I miss the local B.Waldencrowns? No. Borders has a _much_ better > selection and _much_ better atmosphere. >> > > Hate to tell you this, but Waldenbooks and Borders are owned by the same > company. We have both in our area, and both stores independently told me > this. The reason for the difference in atmosphere and stock is to reach as > wide a clientele as possible. Glad to see they're doing something right from the consumer POV, then ;) > Personally, I prefer Borders -- but the > "Preferred Reader" card of Waldenbooks is also a nice perk. ---- Karen > Litman Oh, I still shop at B. Dalton's (which has a similar card) for the sort of stuff they carry (their SF hardbacks all tend to be the top-10-bestseller sort, but I got my copy of _A Deepness in the Sky_ elsewhere since they didn't show any signs of cluefulness regarding it -- if I have to special-order a book, it's often cheaper to do it via Amazon.com). Provide a broad selection. That's all I ask... Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:11:47 +0100 Reply-To: rosetower@aznet.net Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eve Rose Organization: RoseTower Subject: Re: Something for Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Unless it's a speciallty store I tend to go to the large ones with large selections like Barnes and Noble or BookStar (same owners) or Borders. There are so many big stores here in SD that I choose the one with the best service and atmosphere. To me that's the B&N with a Starbucks next door. They have a connecting door and you can bring your coffee in while you browse. Heaven. Eve ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 04:22:32 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Something for Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colleen Maynard wrote: > > Any thoughts, opinions, discussion? When you hear that a small business has failed while large chains thrive in the same area, do you automatically think "there goes another one, killed by big business", or do you give any thought to other contributing factors? Do you feel obligated to patronize small or independently owned businesses, even if they are completely lacking in customer service? There was a bakery near a place we once lived, which was slowly going out of business. The customer service was good, the food was good - but the range was a different style of thing to the bigger places, and they maintained the same range and same quantity regardless of demand - they were always out of pasties by 11am & would get requests for them later, but never made more of them. I think that's what killed them - if they'd responded more to demand they'd still be around. OTOH, a specialist SF bookstore in Melbourne has excellent customer service & a couple of couches, & maintains a range of books - midlist and older stuff especially - that the chains can't match. And it's clean, and they also keep track of what's going on in the SF clubs & societies, & they carry a small supply of related stuff (comics, fanzines, etc), & you are welcome to sit on the couch & read (but if you bend a paperback back so far you crack the spine Megan asks you to pay for it. (No, not me. I have better manners!)) Oh, and Megan's become a friend as well. She knows Gossie. :) Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:10:44 PDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Elizabeth Fitzpatrick Subject: Slan Birth rates Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Greetings people! I thought I would finally add my little ideas to the group at large., Soirry for my silence, but I only get access ot a computer 2 or 3 times a week, so have not been able to keep up. I will be attending a college this summer, however, and plan to keep up with the list at that time. QUERY: I was recently rereading 'Slan', and noted what they said about the birthrate when the mutations were first occuring, ie triplets, quadruplets, etc. Would the sdame thin g have happened in the S`G universe? Also, possible scenario. With the advent of fertility drugs and teratment, might this in some way have affected the development of the S~G mutation??? Elizabeth _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 16:24:22 -0400 Reply-To: doylefm@ix.netcom.com Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Frances M. Doyle" Organization: Left Handed Anchvies Lovers Subject: Re: Something for Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenn V. wrote: > > > > OTOH, a specialist SF bookstore in Melbourne has excellent customer service & a > couple of couches, & maintains a range of books - midlist and older stuff > especially - that the chains can't match. And it's clean, and they also keep > track of what's going on in the SF clubs & societies, & they carry a small > supply of related stuff (comics, fanzines, etc), & you are welcome to sit on the > couch & read (but if you bend a paperback back so far you crack the spine Megan > asks you to pay for it. (No, not me. I have better manners!)) Waterstone? in Scotland is reaaaaaaally nice. 5? stories. Their history section goes waaaaaaaaaaay back to ancient history. A whole section devoted to it. I bought a book on Celtic history because it tells of armed horsemen who rode out of the sun raping, pillaging and bringing destruction to the local citizenry. Of course I had the Four Horsemen of Highlander history autograph the page. Frances ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 16:28:53 -0400 Reply-To: doylefm@ix.netcom.com Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Frances M. Doyle" Organization: Left Handed Anchvies Lovers Subject: Re: Slan Birth rates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Greetings people! > . > QUERY: I was recently rereading 'Slan', and noted what they said about the > birthrate when the mutations were first occuring, ie triplets, quadruplets, > etc. Would the sdame thin g have happened in the S`G universe? Slan :))))))))))I'll never tire of that book. Mutations are my favorite SF stories. I like Dune for the same reasons. Never forgive forthe fictional bibliography that I couldn't read. Frances ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:47:03 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Slan Birth rates In-Reply-To: <19990505191044.85746.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Elizabeth Fitzpatrick" at May 5, 99 12:10:44 pm Content-Type: text Elizabeth wrote: > I thought I would finally add my little ideas to the group at large., Soirry > for my silence, but I only get access ot a computer 2 or 3 times a week, so > have not been able to keep up. I will be attending a college this summer, > however, and plan to keep up with the list at that time. Looking forward to it -- I enjoy good discussions about this sort of thing. > QUERY: I was recently rereading 'Slan', and noted what they said about the > birthrate when the mutations were first occuring, ie triplets, quadruplets, > etc. Would the sdame thin g have happened in the S`G universe? Also, > possible scenario. With the advent of fertility drugs and teratment, might > this in some way have affected the development of the S~G mutation??? Hard to say. JL deliberately leaves the origin of the event blank. So we can't say much about what was causing it -- Klyd, in _House of Zeor_, is talking about Ancient chemicals, but I think that's partly just a reflection of the time JL was writing in (if you're a Doylist) or Klyd not knowing what was going on (if you're a Watsonian). It looks to me as if the S/G mutation had to be _designed_ somehow (there's just too much going on, a whole new system added to the body and Sime metabolisms altered to run on selyn instead of glucose; it would have taken _lots_ of mutations to produce that), but then that opens up the who/where/when/why questions. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:28:15 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Something for Discussion In-Reply-To: >Any thoughts, opinions, discussion? When you hear that a small business has failed while large chains thrive in the same area, do you automatically think "there goes another one, killed by big business", or do you give any thought to other contributing factors? Do you feel obligated to patronize small or independently owned businesses, even if they are completely lacking in customer service? > >Feeling chatty today - and not a little bored! > >Colleen > Colleen. Yeah, I usually blame the big guy. He can give better prices, a lot of times, and is located in better spots, most of the time. For instance. A local bookstore here doesn't carry hardbacks because, they can get them at Books a Million or Sams Club half the price of what they sell them at. So, they've stopped carrying hard backs unless you order them. As for video stores. We had three here that I had gone into. They were, like you said, totally unorganized. The help was lazy--wouldn't assist you etc. They weren't the cleanest places in the world. We go to another small town to rent videos. But, all three of those places went out of business after the 'big guy' moved into town[our town is 9500 btw]. My husband and I both agreed that if they had TRIED they might have stayed open. They might use the excuse, they didn't know what to do. However, they could have gone to see what was so special about the other one--the movies in order for one. Then started making changes. Their prices were much better than the current guy...So there was a plus. Clean it up, put some better lighting in, and then send out flyers and run an ad--get the local paper to do an article on you...and have a grand-reopening. YES, the money would go down...but eventully, it would have gone back up because of the service. Did they not want to put in the work? Or did they just not know? Perhaps they wree a bad manager type person who had coasted along for years and decided it just wasn't worth it to work. I do know, the bookstore here in Zachary stays open for a very good reason. Despite Wal Mart just down the street with their 25% discount...Denise[owner] provides customer service, marked her romance down to 25% off when they come in and will keep a list of those wanting certain authors. Work like that garners customers:) So, the super wal mart may have taken some of her business, but she's kept a lot and thrived in other areas. Cheryl Wolverton > Risa's Rebel http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 A Mother's Love [April 99] For The Love of Zach [Sept 99]* For The Love of Hawk * *[Hill Creek, Texas Series] http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/index.html DNQ w/o permission or a letter informing of intent please. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:28:39 -0800 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: Re: Something for Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Any thoughts, opinions, discussion? When you hear that a small business >has failed while large chains thrive in the same area, do you >automatically think "there goes another one, killed by big business", or >do you give any thought to other contributing factors? Do you feel >obligated to patronize small or independently owned businesses, even if >they are completely lacking in customer service? At least for books, I use my local independent almost exclusively. It's far better organized than our brand-new Borders, and is much more conveniently located. The Avid Reader doesn't get in all the SF hardcovers, but their staff can get just about anything the distributors stock by the next day, and will actually phone you to pick it up on the same day it comes in. Or check the packing slip and dig through the boxes, if you happen to drop by before the day's shipment has been processed. If there is anyone at Borders who knows what they have in stock and on order, I've never had the fortune to meet that individual. The same could be said of the Barnes and Noble in Santa Rosa, and any Waldonbooks or B Dalton that I've ever been in. I'm not willing to put up with nonexistant service for the sake of 10% off my second hundred dollars spent at the store, IF I put my name on their mailing list and let them track my purchases. The Borders cafe is also rather forgettable, by the standards of a California college town. The espresso doesn't come close to the standards of Cafe Roma, and no one who's tasted the goodies in our local Austrian pastry shop, or at Davis Bread and Desserts, will find Borders offerings worth the price. So, applying Colleen's standards of going with the place which offers the best customer service, the Davis independents are in no danger of losing my business. Apparently, a lot of the inmates (er, "citizens") of the People's Republic of Davis agree with me; for a town with this many readers, Borders doesn't seem to be doing that well. Mary Lou (who is ordering her wedding cake from the Austrian pastry shop) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:38:28 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Something for Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:13 AM 05/05/1999 -0700, Tony wrote: >I think there _is_ a difference between "getting driven out by nasty >stuff" and "getting driven out because someone else provides the >same thing better/cheaper/larger." I'll get annoyed about the first, >but not the second. I'm too busy taking advantage of all the wonderful >new opportunities open to me. > >Do I miss the local B.Waldencrowns? No. Borders has a _much_ better >selection and _much_ better atmosphere. Of course, that's just replacing >one chain with a better chain -- but there are still independent >bookstores I frequent, because either they specialize in something, >or they're close and convenient, or the owner is fun to talk to. > >But, ultimately, the purpose of a retail store is to provide >goods or services -- I should go after the best one. Unfortunately, this is the reason no more Sime~Gen books can be published by trade publishers. It came from both ends: big corporations took over all the medium-sized publishers and consolidated them, so that where at one time ten different publishers put out fifty different sf titles every month, now three or four put out ten different titles every month. The majority of sf readers don't read more than ten books a month anyway (we will now hear from the two or three book-a-day people on this list, but the fact that ONE person does something unusual does NOT mean that that one person constitutes a market worth bothering with), so they simply had less choice--but they were getting into television, computers, and gaming anyway, so it didn't hurt THAT badly. Meanwhile, from the other end, the large chain stores took over from the smaller specialty bookstores that used to carry _every_ sf title published each month. The big chains want only the best-sellers--and of course it's a circular argument because by what they buy and what therefore become the only books available to 90% of the reading public, they _create_ the best-sellers. You do know that Jacqueline and I are not alone, don't you? And that agents are getting killed off along with writers and small publishers? It's inevitable, and complaining about it won't fix it. There is no hope of ever going back to the old system. What we can do is find a different way to reach our audience. Hence www.simegen.com. About that video store fiasco Colleen writes about, we now have a Blockbusters in town, in Wal-Mart--and all of a sudden, the video store that used to exist on porn rentals is being raided constantly, and will probably be tied up in court until it is put out of business. _Fascinating_ how "community standards" changed when Blockbusters arrived! Gee--all those people who used to support this store by renting all that porn must have undergone a conversion, because overnight what was perfectly acceptable for years on end has been deemed by the police to be illegal. Awww, it couldn't be that somebody might _profit_ from lodging complaints that will eventually put the smaller store out of business, could it? Naw. Nobody would do _that_! Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:06:30 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Farlie Dragon Subject: Re: Something for Discussion MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is apropos in light of the various discussions we've had about independent booksellers dying off because they can't compete with the industry giants. We have a similar situation here, but involving a local video chain rather than a bookstore @@@@@@@@@@@@ we had the opposite problem her in Providence. I don't know if any of you watch the Program but Providence (the down town section, not the collage sections) is SMALL. Very. only about 4 longish streets all one ways . One of these days I will get some pics up. anyway About 10 years ago I moved to Florida and there were a few Stores I used to frequent. Burer King (it was HUGE, Wood accents, lots of room and except for the counter which was kind of hidden, did NOT look like a fast food joint) We had a total of 3 burger kings and 3 McDonalds and one Wendy's (this counts the collage hill section) I get back and the all the Burger Kings are gone. I can't believe that big one is gone. It was Always PACKED. specially around work lunch time and school out time. Wendy's is gone, and one McDonalds is gone. On the other hand Dunke 'n' Donuts has multiplied like rabbits. there is about 4 within a 3 minute walk of each other. one shares space with Baskin Robins. For the Book stores We had one of Waldens. When The other chain moved in (starts with a b but not boarders) Walden moved out. I come back from Florida and That one has gone too. The one that has stayed thru it all is Cellar Stories a used book store. he started in the basement and I remember when I was in high school going there to find all the Tarzan books. Then I branched out and started with The dragon Riders OF Pern and Andrea Norton's stuff. lol I went on from there. But he has moved twice since I came back about 4 years ago always into new a new and bigger store. He knows he as a customer base in the Science Fiction and Fantasy and he doesn't gouge us. This is where I got the Sime/Gen books. No matter what the book (regular paperbacks) if the cover price is $1.75 then the book is half of that. if it is $5.99 it is still half. there are other bookstores (used) that KNOW they make more money from the science fiction crowd and only cut those books by 25% or 30% and make you think they are doing you a favor. Also Cellar Stories will take books in. Either as credit or cash. (you get more for credit less for cash). SO he knows Those who can't wait for a book to come in will get it at a bookstore and then will most likely trade it in. I wish he would deal in used zines but he won't well I have said enough. Sorry about the spelling that the spell check doesn't catch and the grammar. I have been having bad headaches and Concentration is slipping a little. lol Ttyal Farlie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 21:05:00 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Slan Birth rates Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:10 PM 05/05/1999 PDT, Elizabeth wrote: >QUERY: I was recently rereading 'Slan', and noted what they said about the >birthrate when the mutations were first occuring, ie triplets, quadruplets, >etc. Would the sdame thin g have happened in the S`G universe? Also, >possible scenario. With the advent of fertility drugs and teratment, might >this in some way have affected the development of the S~G mutation??? Chalk up yet another theory. Remember, the answer will always be, "No one knows," which means that you may speculate on any reasonable hypothesis for the cause of the mutation. Of course the more children in a multiple birth the greater the likelihood of premature delivery, incomplete development, very low birth rate, and therefore low survival rate. Hence it is an inefficient way of increasing the numbers of a new mutation. So it is more likely that IFF there were multiple births early in the S~G mutation it was accidental--or if it were planned by genetic engineers, such fetuses were not actually expected to survive. IFF there were genetic engineers behind the mutation, and IFF they knew that the mutation they planned would not manifest until puberty, then while they might use drugs to increase the number of conceptions, they would presumably use the techniques used in animal husbandry to harvest the fetuses and place them in ones and twos--surely no more than threes--in other wombs for safe development. For how would these scientists ever know that their experiment had worked if the resulting children did not survive until puberty, or if they did, died in changover if Sime because they had too many congenital health problems to survive? Of course there is always the possibility that the first Simes were experiments who were _not_ expected to survive, and were considered a failure and put into foster care when they survived but did not show the special ability to utilize energy that they were designed for. And then 12 or 14 years later...they became an X-File! Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:35:46 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: W3C Issues Web Content Accessibility Guidelines as a Recommendation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit W3C Issues Web Content Accessibility Guidelines as a Recommendation WAI Provides Definitive Guidance for Web Access by People with Disabilities http://www.w3.org/1999/05/WCAG-RECPressRelease ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 13:04:07 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: SMOT: Upgrades MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit simegen.com (AKA keon) is getting some software upgrades today. It's a major overhaul, but no significant problems are anticipated. The machine will probably be rebooted a little later in the day resulting in five to six minutes' worth of downtime. Issues addressed: Minor security updates, Improved performance (performance is already 'excellent', but I think we can manage 'superb'). D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 07:26:31 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: KandaceK Subject: OT: Calling all Sentinel fans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks! I'm coming out of lurk mode long enough to send out this plea. The last three "new" episodes of The Sentinel are set to air over the next three Mondays. Please, please tell a friend to watch, especially anybody that has a Nielsen box. The Sentinel must pull at least a 10 share (not impossible if people know it's out there) for the next three weeks in order to be renewed. Please visit the URL below to find out more about The Sentinel. http://world.std.com/~sentinel/ Thanks, Kandy ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 11:21:30 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Nova Subject: Off topic REBOOT fans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Attention reboot fans in the US. The cartoon network has been airing seasons 1-3 at 4:30 eastern time. If you want to see a fourth season please write a nice letter to the following people: Cartoon Network Programming Director Betty Cohen 1050 Techwood Drive NW Atlanta, GA 30318 Animation that appeals to adults as well as children is very popular in the US right now. Although I feel the cartoon network would be the best shot at a fourth season, there are other networks that might be interested in REBOOT. Contact information is as follows: FOX Programming Director Christine Traystman 205 E. 67th Street. NY, NY 10021 UPN Programming Director Dan Carlin 9 Broadcast Plaza Secaucus, NJ 07096 Thanks and stay frosty! Nova We gens might look like we're doing nothing, but at the cellular level we're really quite busy." http://www.li.net/~nova ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 07:18:31 +0100 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Sheila Clark Subject: Re: Something for Discussion In-Reply-To: <3730A8F6.4D2C@ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 05 May, Frances M. Doyle wrote: > Waterstone? in Scotland is reaaaaaaally nice. 5? stories. Their history > section goes waaaaaaaaaaay back to ancient history. A whole section > devoted to it. I bought a book on Celtic history because it tells of > armed horsemen who rode out of the sun raping, pillaging and bringing > destruction to the local citizenry. Of course I had the Four Horsemen of > Highlander history autograph the page. Waterstone varies. In Dundee, good. In Perth, not nearly so good. In Glasgow? I don't know - haven't been into it since they moved, though before they moved I thought it was good - Sauchiehall Street isn't as handy for me when I go into Glasgow as their old site. But Dillon's in Glasgow gives very good service - to the point where one day I felt like writing head management to say so (I didn't because I couldn't find an address) and I've found Borders there quite good too, the couple of times I've been in. However, since I mostly read SF, for a surprising number of books I have to use Amazon.com (Amazon.uk often doesn't carry the titles) with correspondingly higher postage costs, because so few even of the big stores seem to carry a wide range of US imports. Sheila -- sheilac@argonet.co.uk I am not young enough to know everything - J M Barrie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:33:03 PDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Elizabeth Fitzpatrick Subject: Emergence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Oh. Okay. So I'm assuming that the natural mutation thing has been thrown out the window. Very good---it was too statistically improbable. Do we have any trends today that are l;eading towards this. Also, do you think that in the S~G univese, experiemntatiion on human genetic structure was allowed? If so, what beliefs allowed this to happen. Do y'all think this was government or clandestine experiement. If clandestine, would have been more likely to stay localized. Has anyone ever read the book "Emergence" by David Palmer. In it, a homo superior (resistant to disease, strong, smart, etc) was created as a result of the Influenza epidemics of the 1920, which altered the fetuses of preganat mothers. hhmmm. I'm thinking that for a genetic aletration to spread its way throughout the whlole human race simply by interbreeding is not practical. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:55:38 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Emergence In-Reply-To: <19990506193303.12682.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Elizabeth Fitzpatrick" at May 6, 99 12:33:03 pm Content-Type: text It was asked: > Oh. Okay. So I'm assuming that the natural mutation thing has been thrown > out the window. Very good---it was too statistically improbable. Do we have > any trends today that are l;eading towards this. Also, do you think that in > the S~G univese, experiemntatiion on human genetic structure was allowed? If > so, what beliefs allowed this to happen. Do y'all think this was government > or clandestine experiement. If clandestine, would have been more likely to > stay localized. Insufficient Data. I _really_ don't think the thing was an accident. Accidents that precise don't happen on that timescale. Beyond that, we don't know enough to say. Human genetic experimentation is already underway, though so far mostly connected to somatic changes, which only affect one person, than germ-line changes, which affect descendants -- but I expect them to happen as soon as we have a clear idea of _how_ to do them. Nobody's going to mourn Huntington's chorea any more than they mourned smallpox. After that it gets trickier. > Has anyone ever read the book "Emergence" by David Palmer. In it, a homo > superior (resistant to disease, strong, smart, etc) was created as a result > of the Influenza epidemics of the 1920, which altered the fetuses of > preganat mothers. It's an excellent book (unlike his other, _Threshold_, which should be avoided at all costs!), but the explanation is a bit hokey. > hhmmm. I'm thinking that for a genetic aletration to > spread its way throughout the whlole human race simply by interbreeding is > not practical. Doing it that way probably takes on the order of 10^5 years (possibly more). I've seen estimates that 80% of the entire human race is descended from both Mohammed and Charlemagne, but there's always outlying groups. Depends greatly on the selective advantage of the gene: if it keeps you healthier and more fertile longer, it'll spread much faster than otherwise. Frankly, the Sime half of the mutation is _highly_ dangerous that way -- you become completely dependent on something difficult to acquire, and you're a lot more vulnerable to crippling/fatal injuries. Which would tend to slow any process spreading from a center. Which implies that the change was probably fairly rapid, though whether it was dispersal of an aerosel virus, seeded by alien species, a massive psychic influence -- who knows. Insufficient Data again. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:40:36 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Emergence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Oh. Okay. So I'm assuming that the natural mutation thing has been thrown > out the window. Very good---it was too statistically improbable. Actually, no theories have been thrown out the window. I strongly suspect that both Jacqueline and Jean have 'pet' theories that they keep in mind while they write - and that these pet theories probably differ from each others - and that they change from time to time. :) There was a conscious decision *NOT* to create a canonical explanation, thus everything from The Hand Of The Deity to 'Oops, we dropped the vial of gene altering virus and what do you mean the air processor is switched to reverse' is potentially The Right Answer. At the times in which the canonical stories are written, the actual cause has been lost to history - there are only legends and theories. So feel free to write a legend as fantastic as an urban legend, or a theory as strictly founded in experimentation and prior knowledge as a (successful) doctoral thesis. (Only please don't be the one who drops the vial.) > Do we have > any trends today that are l;eading towards this. Also, do you think that in > the S~G univese, experiemntatiion on human genetic structure was allowed? If > so, what beliefs allowed this to happen. Do y'all think this was government > or clandestine experiement. If clandestine, would have been more likely to > stay localized. It's entirely possible that experimentation on human genetic structure has been/is/will be allowed. All it takes is a single country, or a single piece of land outside any recognised country's jurisdiction, or a single laboratory ignoring the laws of the country they are in. Experimentation on humans /happens/, has happened, will happen. Experimentation on human genetics isn't going to be any different. > Has anyone ever read the book "Emergence" by David Palmer. In it, a homo > superior (resistant to disease, strong, smart, etc) was created as a result > of the Influenza epidemics of the 1920, which altered the fetuses of > preganat mothers. hhmmm. I'm thinking that for a genetic aletration to > spread its way throughout the whlole human race simply by interbreeding is > not practical. Not over a human time scale. Over a geological one, sure. :) Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:47:14 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Emergence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Oh. Okay. So I'm assuming that the natural mutation thing has been thrown > out the window. Very good---it was too statistically improbable. Do we have > any trends today that are l;eading towards this. Also, do you think that in > the S~G univese, experiemntatiion on human genetic structure was allowed? If > so, what beliefs allowed this to happen. Do y'all think this was government > or clandestine experiement. If clandestine, would have been more likely to > stay localized. > > Has anyone ever read the book "Emergence" by David Palmer. In it, a homo > superior (resistant to disease, strong, smart, etc) was created as a result > of the Influenza epidemics of the 1920, which altered the fetuses of > preganat mothers. hhmmm. I'm thinking that for a genetic aletration to > spread its way throughout the whlole human race simply by interbreeding is > not practical. "Emergence" as in the sequel to "Threshold"? Err.. *blink* Amazon.com lists "Threshold" as the first of three, and says the other two were never printed. I was hunting up a sequel just the other day when I finally read the fine black print on the back that said it was a trilogy (I'd always thought it was a standalone). D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:57:00 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Re: Emergence Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:33 6/05/99 PDT, you wrote: >Oh. Okay. So I'm assuming that the natural mutation thing has been thrown >out the window. Very good---it was too statistically improbable. Do we have >any trends today that are l;eading towards this. Personally, I blame the Olympics.... Have you seen the hype about who is the strongest, fastest, bluest? (well ok, maybe not bluest). Competitors are looking for the perfect steroid which will defy scientific detection. Let's keep an eye on the children of those competitors who seem to have just a little bit too much of an edge. On a different subject: I have a book about Sydney Sime, he was an artist and theatre set designer early this century. His artwork is mostly what would have been called sci fi fantasy if it was being done today. Zoe saw some luggage called "Sime Travel" Margaret was telling us about a company that was Sime and Something - Margaret, what was it again? Anyone know of any other Simes out there in the business world? Eliza ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 20:05:25 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: Emergence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/6/99 3:43:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jenn@SIMEGEN.COM writes: << Has anyone ever read the book "Emergence" by David Palmer. In it, a homo > superior (resistant to disease, strong, smart, etc) was created as a result > of the Influenza epidemics of the 1920, which altered the fetuses of > preganat mothers. hhmmm. I'm thinking that for a genetic aletration to > spread its way throughout the whlole human race simply by interbreeding is > not practical. >> Re-read this gem this past month while I was sick. It is still wonderful...if you can find it in a used book store, buy it...read it...you will enjoy! ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 20:44:17 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Farlie Dragon Subject: Re: Calling all Sentinel fans MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: KandaceK To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 8:26 AM Subject: OT: Calling all Sentinel fans > watch, especially anybody that has a Nielsen box. The Sentinel > must pull at least a 10 share (not impossible if people know it's > Kandy Kandy I will be a Nielsen family on the week of the 21st. (This month) I actually don't watch much TV so If any of you want me to put in for favorites lmk. I am getting 5 diaries for the 5 TV's. LOL there are only myself and my mother. (Unless you count the hamsters lol) My mother and I have 1 TV and 1 gaming TV (also gets TV but use it for games like n64) in our bedrooms and one in the den. So he (Nielsen people) are sending me 5 diaries for each. He said so you are not moving them from room to room. I also have VCR's but I didn't mention that lol. Farlie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 19:54:34 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Something for Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:18 AM 05/06/1999 +0100, Sheila wrote: > >However, since I mostly read SF, for a surprising number of books I have >to use Amazon.com (Amazon.uk often doesn't carry the titles) with >correspondingly higher postage costs, because so few even of the big >stores seem to carry a wide range of US imports. > >Sheila What's that weirdly named sf bookstore in London--Dark they Were and Golden-Eyed or something close to that? It's off Tottenham Court Road in the Dials area somewhere (I have found it on a couple of visits). I don't think they have a website, but perhaps they do mail-order? Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 17:59:07 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Emergence In-Reply-To: <37321BF2.499F9655@zeor.simegen.com> from "Dancer" at May 7, 99 08:47:14 am Content-Type: text > "Emergence" as in the sequel to "Threshold"? > > Err.. *blink* > > Amazon.com lists "Threshold" as the first of three, and says the other > two were never printed. I was hunting up a sequel just the other day > when I finally read the fine black print on the back that said it was a > trilogy (I'd always thought it was a standalone). _Emergence_ is a standalone, and really very good. It's Palmer's first published book. _Threshold_ is the first of a trilogy, and really very wretched. (The other two books were, so far as anybody knows, never published.) Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:03:13 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Emergence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > > "Emergence" as in the sequel to "Threshold"? > > > > Err.. *blink* > > > > Amazon.com lists "Threshold" as the first of three, and says the other > > two were never printed. I was hunting up a sequel just the other day > > when I finally read the fine black print on the back that said it was a > > trilogy (I'd always thought it was a standalone). > > _Emergence_ is a standalone, and really very good. It's Palmer's > first published book. > > _Threshold_ is the first of a trilogy, and really very wretched. > (The other two books were, so far as anybody knows, never published.) I wouldn't call it wretched. It's just mind-candy. Pure sugar, and as long as you can cope with the caloric guilt, it's enjoyable enough. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 18:10:09 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Margaret Carr Subject: Re: Emergence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Margaret was telling us about a company that was Sime and Something - > Margaret, what was it again? > > Anyone know of any other Simes out there in the business world? > > Eliza > Sime Darby Berhad. They have several businesses in Australia but only one has Sime in the name. Sime Cycles. The conglomerate is headquartered in Malaysia. The original Sime Darby was founded in 1910 by a Scottish gentleman named Sime and an Englishman named Darby to set up a rubber plantation in Malacca. Their website is www.simenet.com As for the genetics, consider sickle cell anemia. The child who inherits the genes from both parents has red cells that crimp up into a sickle shape and usually has a short painful life although modern medicine can alleviate the symptoms somewhat. BUT the child who only inherits from one parent has increased resistance to Malaria and a greatly increased possibility of surviving and reproducing in Malarial regions. Children who inherit from neither parent do fine until they are snacked on by Anophles mosquitoes carrying Malaria. Now theorize that a particular gene combination in the heterozygous form could be created by bio-engineering that would give complete immunity to AIDS. Even if the homozygous children, who would be about one in four all died the risk might be considered worth it. If the homozygous children just happened to be Simes and Gens the Gens would mostly survive so the odds would be only one in eight, at first, that your teenager would turn into a killer. A quarter would not have the gene complex and would survive as long as they didn't get AIDS. Further possibility -- the Black Plague starts as an infection spread by fleas and then sometimes mutates into an air-borne version. If AIDS were to mutate into an airborne version only the children with the gene complex would be likely to reproduce. Then parents would have to chose between the possibility of sudden death at puberty of one in eight or the slow, lingering death that can even affect babies. I would expect the first attempts would be the somatic genengineering, followed by the hereditary when the somatic was successful, all unknowing what would happen when the children grew up and had children. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 18:19:39 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Emergence In-Reply-To: <37323BD1.CB5FDD9C@zeor.simegen.com> from "Dancer" at May 7, 99 11:03:13 am Content-Type: text > > _Emergence_ is a standalone, and really very good. It's Palmer's > > first published book. > > > > _Threshold_ is the first of a trilogy, and really very wretched. > > (The other two books were, so far as anybody knows, never published.) > > I wouldn't call it wretched. It's just mind-candy. Pure sugar, and as > long as you can cope with the caloric guilt, it's enjoyable enough. Compared to the talent that did _Emergence_, it's wretched. Oh, I've re-read it -- it's kind of a guilty pleasure, and it certainly goes places and does things. It would make a great action movie, I think -- but the guy who did the little girl in _Emergence_ could have done a much better job. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 21:04:07 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Emergence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << Anyone know of any other Simes out there in the business world? Eliza >> Not sure about SIME, but there is a stryofoam packaging some of the commercial restaurants use for their carry home left-overs containers. That is called GENpak. I've sent a couple of cutouts from the packaging to Jacqueline for giggles. ---- Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 22:26:43 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Farlie Dragon Subject: Sci Fi /fantisy books MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009F_01BE980F.8509DCA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01BE980F.8509DCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I love to read the Post Apoli (umm Can't figure out how to spell it. You = know those "after the born or what ever hits, mankind has to cope" = stories) . Can anybody send me some titles? I used to have a big = collection of them but unless things come in series (or the writer = writes a lot) I usually can't remember title or author names. Also I am looking for a story and again can't remember the name/ author. on the cover was 3 beings. one human woman one amphibian male ( both men = are humanoid) and one other alien male. This was in a circle as far as I = remember it. not a full cover. In the story (which reminded me STRONGLY of "Starman" in the beginning) = the Male amphibian mail (green flippers ridge on head green skin) in = space suit crashes a party to find someone to make contact with. He = Chooses a woman who has a toddler. they eventually go to the moon where = the two males races have settled and are studying the earth. She bonds = with the two males and goes home with them. (after many hassles lol) I don't remember which publisher but I think the spine was light = colored. don't really remember. If any body can give me some help here I would be forever grateful. P.S. Jean, I spent the extra $ I was hoping to get the extra computer = with on goodies for the one I am using now.=20 Sorry this turned out so long. Night all Farlie ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01BE980F.8509DCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I love to read the Post Apoli (umm Can't figure out = how to=20 spell it. You know those "after the born or what ever hits, mankind has = to cope"=20 stories) . Can anybody send me some titles? I used to have a big = collection of=20 them but unless things come in series (or the writer writes a lot) I = usually=20 can't remember title or author names.
 
Also I am looking for a story and again can't = remember the=20 name/ author.
on the cover was 3 beings. one human woman one = amphibian male=20 ( both men are humanoid) and one other alien male. This was in a = circle as=20 far as I remember it. not a full cover.
In the story (which reminded me STRONGLY = of "Starman" in=20 the beginning) the Male amphibian mail (green flippers ridge on head = green skin)=20 in space suit crashes a party to find someone to make contact with. He = Chooses a=20 woman who has a toddler. they eventually go to the moon where the two = males=20 races have settled and are studying the earth. She bonds with the two = males and=20 goes home with them. (after many hassles lol)
I don't remember which publisher but I think the = spine was=20 light colored. don't really remember.
 
If any body can give me some help here I would be = forever=20 grateful.
 
P.S. Jean, I spent the extra $ I was hoping to get = the extra=20 computer with on goodies for the one I am using now.
 
Sorry this turned out so long.
 
Night all
Farlie
 
------=_NextPart_000_009F_01BE980F.8509DCA0-- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 00:11:54 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 5 May 1999 to 6 May 1999 (#1999-125) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Colleen I believe it's some of each... I rue having our local ma-pa pharmacy shut down -- the proprietors were some of the nicest people I've ever met (Daryl, the druggist currently works at the state college and we're still quite friendly and will be as long as I have anything to say about it) - but they literally could not compete wtih the chainstores' prices. Their store was clean, neat, friendly, and Daryl's brother Tommy took extreme joy in redecorating for every holiday - his halloween layout was great - pulleys from the front door to Dracula in his coffin, from the side door to Frankenstein's hand, speakers in both's bodies with hidden mikes behind the counter... They hung on with places like Longs, but when Walgreens and Walmart came to town, it was the killing blow. But other proprietors didn't do near as nice a job; I'm just as happy to see them gone. I think some of them were right on the border of being health hazards like the theater you describe. I still think of Heaven as something like Albatross or Holmes in SF -- Holmes looked so much like the Janeway store in Voyager last night that I was wondering if it was filmed there -- if "there" is still there... I moved out of SF in '82, unfortunately. I still tend to save my $ and buy at DV if I know I'm going to LA any time soon... Art's a good guy and he's more likely to have anything than anyone here in town. The TRUE rip-off in town is the state univ -bookstore. - which is a BN outlet. Some undergrads did a study last fall and found that the average full-time student paid over $100 more at the college store than if they ordered at the nearby independent and roughly the same if they ordered from Amazon.com. Most of the books were marked ABOVE list - they put stickers over the list prices. I'm guessing the gap is greater for my grad-school books. And Rehab pays ONLY at the college bookstore. (I'm attending through rehab.) THe local Barnes-Noble has a much better selection than the local BDalton, but they give no discounts for anything, and Dalton gives 10% discount with the member card, + $5 bonus for every $100 spent... and their employees are MUCH friendlier. I often browse at BN and order what I find through Dalton. I know it's the same parent company, but I refuse to spend the extra when I don't have to. I live in fear that they'll close down the Dalton, to be honest, and leave me no option but BN. Interesting -- when Never Cross a Palm came out, I had to order it... last time I was in they had 2 copies on the shelf! I'm into supporting anyone who carries JL! The fact that the one time we ordered cocoa from Starbucks it was absolutely nondescript didn't help my willingness to shop there, either. We're not coffee drinkers, so if you don't have good cocoa, you can forget our business. Farlie I wish our local used stores were straight half. OUrs is min $1.50. (I've bought $.75 cover-priced paperbacks for $1.50... I don't like it, but if it's in good condition and I want it, I still do it. We don't grade on spelling or punctuation. Don't worry. "Watch for falling assumptions!" _All_ unsolicited .exe files will be summarily deleted without opening. Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com www.wingedharper.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:17:54 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Chat with Romance Editor Tonight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tonight at 9pm EDT, 8pm CDT, or 6pm PDT, the Romance area of simegen.com will present an IRC chat with Harlequin editor Patience Smith. You don't need an IRC program to participate. Just go to http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/index.html and follow the links. You can sign in right on the website. This summer we will have similar chats in the WorldCrafters Guild Professional Writing School. But right now, for those of you with an interest in writing romance, or who read it and would like to know what goes on behind the scenes, here is your opportunity to hear from an editor from one of the largest publishers of romance ever. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:25:23 +0100 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Sheila Clark Subject: Re: Something for Discussion In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990507005434.00748818@msumusik.mursuky.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 07 May, Jean Lorrah wrote: > At 07:18 AM 05/06/1999 +0100, Sheila wrote: > > > >However, since I mostly read SF, for a surprising number of books I have > >to use Amazon.com (Amazon.uk often doesn't carry the titles) with > >correspondingly higher postage costs, because so few even of the big > >stores seem to carry a wide range of US imports. > > > >Sheila > What's that weirdly named sf bookstore in London--Dark they Were and > Golden-Eyed or something close to that? It's off Tottenham Court Road > in the Dials area somewhere (I have found it on a couple of visits). I > don't think they have a website, but perhaps they do mail-order? Jean There's At the Sign of the Dragon in Richmond - I do buy from them, but it's a small shop and can't carry everything. Dark They Were and Golden-Eyed -may- have opened up again, I don't know, but they went bankrupt and had to close down somewhere around 1980, I think it was. They were having difficulty and had one really big debt they were paying off at so much a month; one month the cheque was late through a bank error, but the creditor wouldn't accept that, said the shop was in breach of its agreement and demanded instant payment of the remainder of the debt. Short-sighted, because of course the owner went bankrupt and only a percentage would be paid, whereas if the creditor had accepted the reason he'd eventually have got the whole debt repaid. Forbidden Planet I believe does mail order, but the quality of the shop in Glasgow is such that I just don't trust them (let's just say that there's a Trek con in Glasgow every year, and the staff can't be bothered taking a table. The one year FP did have a table, it was the Edinburgh branch that arrived.) There's also Andromeda in Birmingham but it's variable in reliability, depending on who is handling orders. Sheila -- sheilac@argonet.co.uk I am not young enough to know everything - J M Barrie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 13:34:37 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Chat with Romance Editor Tonight In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990507121754.00755edc@msumusik.mursuky.edu> Please be sure to go by and read the FAQ before showing up. It'll give you an idea what is going on and what to expect. Cheryl Wolverton > Risa's Rebel http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 A Mother's Love [April 99] For The Love of Zach [Sept 99]* For The Love of Hawk * *[Hill Creek, Texas Series] http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/index.html DNQ w/o permission or a letter informing of intent please. >-----Original Message----- >From: A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom >[mailto:SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM]On Behalf Of Jean Lorrah >Sent: Friday, May 07, 1999 7:18 AM >To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM >Subject: Chat with Romance Editor Tonight > > >Tonight at 9pm EDT, 8pm CDT, or 6pm PDT, the Romance area of simegen.com >will present an IRC chat with Harlequin editor Patience Smith. > >You don't need an IRC program to participate. Just go to >http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/index.html and follow the links. You >can sign in right on the website. > >This summer we will have similar chats in the WorldCrafters Guild >Professional Writing School. But right now, for those of you with an >interest in writing romance, or who read it and would like to know >what goes >on behind the scenes, here is your opportunity to hear from an editor from >one of the largest publishers of romance ever. > >Jean > >Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. >Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. >***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 > >---------- >You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >"unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >---------- > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 19:48:36 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Emergence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-06 21:23:51 EDT, you write: << Not sure about SIME, but there is a stryofoam packaging some of the commercial restaurants use for their carry home left-overs containers. That is called GENpak. >> Makes sense. Simes wouldn't be interested in left-overs. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 19:33:21 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Something for Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:25 AM 05/07/1999 +0100, Sheila wrote: >On 07 May, Jean Lorrah wrote: > >There's At the Sign of the Dragon in Richmond - I do buy from them, but >it's a small shop and can't carry everything. Dark They Were and >Golden-Eyed -may- have opened up again, I don't know, but they went >bankrupt and had to close down somewhere around 1980, I think it was. I know I've been to the store I was thinking of more recently than that (but not _very_ recently, as it's six years since the last time I visited London). Perhaps I was thinking of the London branch of Forbidden Planet? I'm remembering a basement and a ground floor, all jam-packed with sf, much of it American editions. Anyway, the general idea is to find a store in your own country that specializes in imported sf, so you don't have to wait interminable lengths of time or pay absurd amounts of postage. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:43:58 +0100 Reply-To: rosetower@aznet.net Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eve Rose Organization: RoseTower Productions Subject: chat boo hoo! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't investigate the use of my software thouroughly before the appointed time for the chat. I attempted to log on for approximately 40 minutes before I gave up. Can we say computer illiterate? I certainly can! I'll have to read the log later. Question: For those of you who have MAcs or have friends who have Macs, which browser do you find is the most useful: Netscape or Internet Explorer? I have both but have never used Explorer. I've been having trouble with Netscape and wonder if it's my ignorance or just not that good of a browser? Are there any others you'all have had experience with? This is the summer of writing and computer education(Plus wallowing in my reading and my soaps). I'm going to reconfigure my little darling so that I know what it does, how it does it and why I can't get it to do it. Eve Rose ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 12:20:19 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: chat boo hoo! Comments: To: rosetower@aznet.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eve Rose wrote: > > I didn't investigate the use of my software thouroughly before the > appointed time for the chat. I attempted to log on for approximately 40 > minutes before I gave up. Can we say computer illiterate? I certainly > can! I'll have to read the log later. > Question: For those of you who have MAcs or have friends who have Macs, > which browser do you find is the most useful: Netscape or Internet > Explorer? I have both but have never used Explorer. I've been having > trouble with Netscape and wonder if it's my ignorance or just not that > good of a browser? Are there any others you'all have had experience > with? This is the summer of writing and computer education(Plus > wallowing in my reading and my soaps). I'm going to reconfigure my > little darling so that I know what it does, how it does it and why I > can't get it to do it. > Eve Rose Well, actually, the default configuration for the IRC server is a maximum 20 users (or so I understand from reading through the configuration file a few moments ago). I've just increased that to 120, but I will need to restart the IRC server for the new setting to take effect. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 21:50:07 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: chat boo hoo! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:20 PM 05/08/1999 +1000, Dancer wrote: >Well, actually, the default configuration for the IRC server is a >maximum 20 users (or so I understand from reading through the >configuration file a few moments ago). I've just increased that to 120, >but I will need to restart the IRC server for the new setting to take >effect. So THAT'S what happened! I couldn't get in and kept trying and trying--and then the dam broke. I got in, and about a dozen people followed. We must routinely set the number higher for these chats--people are interested. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 13:24:12 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: chat boo hoo! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > > We must routinely set the number higher for these chats--people are > interested. Jean It's permanently set for 120, so I understand. Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 22:39:55 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: chat boo hoo! In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990508025007.00747d78@msumusik.mursuky.edu> ROFL...well this was a FUN night in chat;) Poor Jenn and Dancer. Thank you SO MUCh for being there. Patience's browser wouldn't work. We're in the process of updating the chat page[as I speak I'm downloading it]. So that should solve the second problem. I apologize to any who tried to get on and couldn't. However, the good news is, now that the problem happened, we have it fixed:) Thanks again everyone for showing up! The chat will be posted in the next day or two after it's been cleaned up. Cheryl Wolverton > Risa's Rebel http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 A Mother's Love [April 99] For The Love of Zach [Sept 99]* For The Love of Hawk * *[Hill Creek, Texas Series] http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/index.html DNQ w/o permission or a letter informing of intent please. >-----Original Message----- >From: A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom >[mailto:SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM]On Behalf Of Jean Lorrah >Sent: Friday, May 07, 1999 9:50 PM >To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM >Subject: Re: chat boo hoo! > > >At 12:20 PM 05/08/1999 +1000, Dancer wrote: > >>Well, actually, the default configuration for the IRC server is a >>maximum 20 users (or so I understand from reading through the >>configuration file a few moments ago). I've just increased that to 120, >>but I will need to restart the IRC server for the new setting to take >>effect. > >So THAT'S what happened! I couldn't get in and kept trying and trying--and >then the dam broke. I got in, and about a dozen people followed. > >We must routinely set the number higher for these chats--people are >interested. Jean > >Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. >Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. >***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 > >---------- >You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >"unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >---------- > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 13:54:33 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: chat boo hoo! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > > At 12:20 PM 05/08/1999 +1000, Dancer wrote: > > >Well, actually, the default configuration for the IRC server is a > >maximum 20 users (or so I understand from reading through the > >configuration file a few moments ago). I've just increased that to 120, > >but I will need to restart the IRC server for the new setting to take > >effect. > > So THAT'S what happened! I couldn't get in and kept trying and trying--and > then the dam broke. I got in, and about a dozen people followed. > > We must routinely set the number higher for these chats--people are > interested. Jean I've set it to 120. I'll be showing Jenn and Marge how to set it higher if need be. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 08:34:31 +0100 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Sheila Clark Subject: Re: Something for Discussion In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990508003321.007492d4@msumusik.mursuky.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 08 May, Jean Lorrah wrote: > At 07:25 AM 05/07/1999 +0100, Sheila wrote: > >On 07 May, Jean Lorrah wrote: > > > >There's At the Sign of the Dragon in Richmond - I do buy from them, but > >it's a small shop and can't carry everything. Dark They Were and > >Golden-Eyed -may- have opened up again, I don't know, but they went > >bankrupt and had to close down somewhere around 1980, I think it was. > I know I've been to the store I was thinking of more recently than that > (but not _very_ recently, as it's six years since the last time I > visited London). Perhaps I was thinking of the London branch of > Forbidden Planet? I'm remembering a basement and a ground floor, all > jam-packed with sf, much of it American editions. It might have been Forbidden Planet - I've never been to the London branch - but as I said, the Glasgow staff leaves much to be desired, and I've heard stories about poor service from other branches too. OK, you may just hear the two or three stories about lousy service and not hear the two or three dozen stories about brilliant service, but they don't exactly encourage you... > Anyway, the general idea is to find a store in your own country that > specializes in imported sf, so you don't have to wait interminable > lengths of time or pay absurd amounts of postage. And from choice I would, but the one store I really trust is small and as I said, it can't carry everything. :-( Not that I use Amazon much - browsing on the web bores me at the best of times, and you really have to know a writer or title if you want to find a specific book. Ditto with mail order, of course, though I could sit for much longer looking through a paper catalogue than I could be bothered sitting at the computer looking at exactly the same catalogue on screen. The best bet to find a new writer or even a new book that you haven't heard about by a writer you like is still physically going into a bookshop, IMO. I have no idea how to go about finding a 'new' writer via Amazon, and even if I did, readers' reviews don't help me know if I'd like it since I don't know the type of thing that those people like or dislike. I need to be able to scan through a few pages to see if I like the writing style, the characters, and even the direction in which the story is going. I know there are the sites where you can download stories, but I don't -want- to read them on the monitor screen. It's too easy to fall asleep, and the number of times I've nearly fallen off my chair at the computer is legion. (Ditto with TV, actually; the number of times I fall asleep in the middle of something I want to see is ridiculous, and I suspect it's something to do with watching the screen.) I must be getting old... Sheila -- sheilac@argonet.co.uk I am not young enough to know everything - J M Barrie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 22:21:09 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Something for Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:34 AM 05/08/1999 +0100, Sheila wrote: >The best bet to find a new writer or even a new book that you haven't >heard about by a writer you like is still physically going into a >bookshop, IMO. I have no idea how to go about finding a 'new' writer via >Amazon, and even if I did, readers' reviews don't help me know if I'd like >it since I don't know the type of thing that those people like or dislike. >I need to be able to scan through a few pages to see if I like the writing >style, the characters, and even the direction in which the story is going. Well, actually, amazon.com has a feature that says, "People who bought this book also bought..." and lists four or five books purchased by purchasers of the one you are looking at. Now, one such list may not be much help, but if you find a particular book being purchased along with three or four of your favorite books, chances are it pushes the same buttons as your favorites and therefore you would probably enjoy it. >I know there are the sites where you can download stories, but I don't >-want- to read them on the monitor screen. It's too easy to fall asleep, >and the number of times I've nearly fallen off my chair at the computer is >legion. (Ditto with TV, actually; the number of times I fall asleep in the >middle of something I want to see is ridiculous, and I suspect it's >something to do with watching the screen.) I must be getting old... I fall asleep over paper just as often--in fact I've never fallen asleep sitting up at the desktop, though I have reading from the notebook. But I fall asleep over a book or fanzine nearly every night, and wake up a few minutes later with a stiff neck, long enough to put down book and glasses and turn out the light. I also fall asleep in the afternoon, if I try to grade papers or read something during that dull time of day when the body insists "nap time!" I can do something active (walk the dogs, go grocery shopping), or I can take a half hour's nap, and then I'll be fine--if I _have_ to grade those papers, the nap (with an alarm set) is actually the most efficient solution. As to downloading stories--you can always print them out. I often do that, as my fannish reading time is that fifteen minutes at bedtime before I fall asleep. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 21:57:05 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Something for Discussion In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990509032109.0074d1a4@msumusik.mursuky.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at May 8, 99 10:21:09 pm Content-Type: text > Well, actually, amazon.com has a feature that says, "People who bought this > book also bought..." and lists four or five books purchased by purchasers of > the one you are looking at. Now, one such list may not be much help, but if > you find a particular book being purchased along with three or four of your > favorite books, chances are it pushes the same buttons as your favorites and > therefore you would probably enjoy it. There's a similar rating system in use at www.alexlit.com (which has the advantage of including ratings of a lot of out-of-print stuff), and I've had some good recommendations from there. (It's even recommended stuff I already had, since of course I hadn't told it that I'd read it yet.) Very worth doing, and probably better recommendations than you'd get from amazon.com. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 08:42:58 +0100 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Sheila Clark Subject: Re: Something for Discussion In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990509032109.0074d1a4@msumusik.mursuky.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 09 May, Jean Lorrah wrote: > Well, actually, amazon.com has a feature that says, "People who bought > this book also bought..." and lists four or five books purchased by > purchasers of the one you are looking at. Now, one such list may not be > much help, but if you find a particular book being purchased along with > three or four of your favorite books, chances are it pushes the same > buttons as your favorites and therefore you would probably enjoy it. Doesn't always work. I've bought books in the past that were recommended to me by folk who know what I read/like, and while the -theme- was one I could enjoy, the writing, the development of the characters, etc, wasn't. But you still need to have a title or two, or a writer's name, to start you off. > >I know there are the sites where you can download stories, but I don't > >-want- to read them on the monitor screen. It's too easy to fall asleep, > I fall asleep over paper just as often--in fact I've never fallen asleep > sitting up at the desktop, though I have reading from the notebook. I rarely fall asleep over paper, even late at night in bed. I usually put the book down because I feel it's getting late rather than because I'm getting heavy-eyed. > I also fall asleep in the afternoon, if I try to grade papers or read > something during that dull time of day when the body insists "nap time!" I've done that occasionally, even when I've got onto my feet to keep me awake - actually fallen asleep on my feet for just a split second and wakened again as my knees were beginning to buckle... > I can do something active (walk the dogs, go grocery shopping) I once fell asleep while driving (it was the first time I'd ever had a sudden mid-afternoon drowsiness). Luckily it was a deserted road, my passenger realised instantly, yelled and grabbed the steering wheel. And I once fell asleep floating down a very cold river on an airbed (I suspect it was actually the early stages of hypothermia) during a race. > or I can take a half hour's nap, and then I'll be fine--if I _have_ to > grade those papers, the nap (with an alarm set) is actually the most > efficient solution. I've found lying down for just five minutes with my eyes closed, not necessarily actually sleeping, works. > As to downloading stories--you can always print them out. I often do > that, as my fannish reading time is that fifteen minutes at bedtime > before I fall asleep. Oh, I do; it works fine with a 20-page story, or even 8 20-page stories; but if I've picked up a 160-page story I'll think twice about printing that. Sheila -- sheilac@argonet.co.uk I am not young enough to know everything - J M Barrie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 00:35:07 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ronnie Bob Whitaker Subject: OffTopic: What Happened in Oklahoma Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sunday, 9 May 1999, I just got home from my first week of vacation for a short stop over before continuing to distant parts of Texas. On the first week, I went to Branson, Missouri. The route I took was I35 to Oklahoma City and I44 over to Springfield, Missouri, which is also the way that I returned. (It isn't the shortest route, but is one of the fastest.) I left Fort Worth on Friday afternoon, spent the night in Tulsa and arrived in Brason on Saturday Afternoon. Then, while we were in Branson, the devastating tornadoes hit Oklahoma and Kansas. They are still talking about all of the records that are being broken by this particularly nasty storm. I believe that it has been confirmed that the tornado was an F5 which means wind in excess of 316 miles per hour. (That's 505 kilometers per hour for the rest of the world.) Additionally, most tornadoes touch down for a short period, then go back into the clouds and touch down somewhere else. This particularly bad one touched down and stayed on the ground for at least 30 minutes and perhaps as much as an hour cutting a swath of damage from 1 half mile to 1 full mile wide in places. Additionally, there were 76 tornadoes spawned across the entire front, one of which hit close to Wichita, Kansas. That was bad enough, but the next night, the same storm produced tornadoes in Texas and Arkansas. The third night in Mississippi. The fourth night in Georgia and the Fifth night the storm still had enough power to drench parts of Florida. Having a single cold front/storm with that much power and that much strength for that long is particularly unusual. Now they are saying the "La Nina" effect of colder water in the Pacific Ocean off of California was a contributing factor to make this storm so strong to begin with. Like most of the rest of the U.S., I saw the pictures night after night on TV, but it didn't really hit home until I was driving home from Branson and we reached Stroud, Oklahoma and suddenly, where before we had seen an outlet mall, now there was nothing but torn buildings on each side of the interstate. The path of destruction was easily visible on both sides of the interstate. Then, just south of Oklahoma City, I saw the remnants of Moore, OK, which they had already had several days to improve, but was still in complete disarray, clearly visible from both sides of the interstate. Now, I didn't purposely set out to try to see the devastation or to try to be voyeuristic in the matter, but just passing through was enough to REALLY bring it home to me just how BAD the damage was. Watching the TV just wasn't the same as seeing it in person, and it is very hard to describe it in a way which will do justice to the scene. The one thing to be thankful for was that the death toll was so low. In the buildings I saw, I could hardly understand how anyone could possibly survive, but by following the weather directions and evacuating and going to a bathroom or center house closet, the vast majority of the residents survived with their life and little else. Now they have to start over, and most of the rest of the world will forget about them as other news worthy items arise to take the place of the "fifteen minutes of fame" this unusual tornado gave to them. For those of you outside the US who didn't even see it on TV, it was a real life "Twister" (from the movie of the same name) and the damage was real and not just Hollywood magic. Yet this was a "natural" disaster that affected 2,000 homes and families at the most, and they have friends and family and government to help them rebuild, and they will. Still, it is hard to imagine without actually seeing it for yourself. Having Fun in the Sime~Gen Universe, Ronnie Bob ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:43:34 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: OffTopic: What Happened in Oklahoma MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ronnie Bob Whitaker wrote: > > Now they have to start over, and most of the rest of the world > will forget about them as other news worthy items arise to take the place of > the "fifteen minutes of fame" this unusual tornado gave to them. > Yet this was a "natural" disaster that affected 2,000 homes and > families at the most, and they have friends and family and government to > help them rebuild, and they will. Still, it is hard to imagine without > actually seeing it for yourself. I don't know - Australia still talks about Cyclone Tracey and its effects on Darwin, and that was Christmas Eve 1975. I assume/hope that banks & TV stations and radio stations there are holding donation-drives for the rebuilding? That your charities are asking for donations of clothing & household items & transporting them to the scene/storing the stuff that won't be useful yet? Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 07:25:25 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: KandaceK Subject: Sentinel Tonight! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks! For all Sentinel fans out there, remember, there's a new episode tonight. Airs at 9 PM ET/8 PM CT on UPN. Tonight's ep is called "Real Deal" and guest stars Robert Vaughn (Man From Uncle). Don't forget! Kandy ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:26:17 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Cynthia Tenen Subject: Re: Oklahoma Tornadoes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was browsing C.J. Cherryh's website last night, and realized --duh...-- that she lives right in the path of the tornadoes. (She's fine, but it was very very scary and close.) She's posted an eyewitness -- or rather, earwitness -- account on her newsletter page, which is reachable via , and also has some comments as to just why the death toll was so incredibly low. --ct ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:31:02 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: De-lurking with questions, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello all, Ummm... I have a whole stack of background questions regarding a story that I am quietly writing. (that I may or may not ever let anyone see) I also don't know the exact protocal for submission of a story/idea set in the S~G universe. (The story in question is about 2/3 done, with minor revisions needed to the original outline) Could anyone help me out? Am I in the wrong room? Have I managed to make an absolute fool out of myself, or just a minor one? Ann Marie Olson alt address annolson@vnet.net ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:44:56 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:31 PM 05/10/1999 -0700, Ann Marie wrote: >Hello all, > > > >Ummm... I have a whole stack of background questions regarding a story that >I am quietly writing. (that I may or may not ever let anyone see) Post them to the list--many people here are well-versed in the background and will be happy to help you out. >I also don't know the exact protocal for submission of a story/idea set in >the S~G universe. (The story in question is about 2/3 done, with minor >revisions needed to the original outline) Could anyone help me out? Am I in >the wrong room? Have I managed to make an absolute fool out of myself, or >just a minor one? Well, we would rather see a story outline (synopsis) _before_ you put the effort into writing it. If you use the e-dress simegen@simegen.com, both Jacqueline and I will get your outline. Almost always, what you want to have happen _can_ happen in the Sime~Gen universe. We just have to brainstorm _how_. Too often, a "how" that doesn't fit the rules of the universe is written into the story, which then has to be discarded and begun over. But at the outline stage it's easy to redesign so that the same things happen, just for the _right_ reasons. So please come out of hiding. We're pretty friendly here. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:57:55 -0700 Reply-To: patric@usa.net Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Patric Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, In-Reply-To: <1583828ED67FD211A31D006008277B19236D2C@mail.gammametrics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:31:02 -0700 Send reply to: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: De-lurking with questions, To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM > Hello all, Hi Anne-Marie... > I remodeled my place and it now has glass door to hide behind.. :) > Ummm... I have a whole stack of background questions regarding a story > that I am quietly writing. (that I may or may not ever let anyone see) Understand that, but for what its worth, the folk I have spoken with here are all genuinely interested, and no one laughed, looked down at me, or criticized harshly. In other words, if you can take that first step, the folks around her will help you walk.. :) > I also don't know the exact protocal for submission of a story/idea set in > the S~G universe. (The story in question is about 2/3 done, with minor > revisions needed to the original outline) Could anyone help me out? Am I JL covered that already.. > in the wrong room? Have I managed to make an absolute fool out of myself, > or just a minor one? Neither one, actually. Someone taught me ages ago that the only foolish question was the one that went unasked. Near as I can tell, everyone here shares the same opinion, so ask away! > Want me to install a glass door for you too? :) Take good care Anne-Marie. I look forward to hearing from you again.. Patric SysAdmin The Dragons Lair www.dragonslair.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:25:45 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Olson, Ann Marie" wrote: > Ummm... I have a whole stack of background questions regarding a story that > I am quietly writing. (that I may or may not ever let anyone see) Ask. We aren't going to shoot you - or even force transfer. :) > I also don't know the exact protocal for submission of a story/idea set in > the S~G universe. (The story in question is about 2/3 done, with minor > revisions needed to the original outline) Could anyone help me out? Am I in > the wrong room? Have I managed to make an absolute fool out of myself, or > just a minor one? Typically, a story outline goes to JL &/or Jean, and the story when it's finished goes to Karen or (when/if we get other fanzines again) another fanzine editor - as I understand it. Karen's cool - but then again, I haven't yet had her send a story back with more than minor red-pencilling. If you get stuck in a story, feel free to ask for advice - here or on the writers-l@simegen.com list. > > > Ann Marie Olson > alt address annolson@vnet.net > advice ... "When you can't find anything you want to read, write your -own- > book!"> Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:50:45 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-10 21:30:01 EDT, you write: << Typically, a story outline goes to JL &/or Jean, and the story when it's finished goes to Karen or (when/if we get other fanzines again) another fanzine editor - as I understand it. Karen's cool - but then again, I haven't yet had her send a story back with more than minor red-pencilling. >> Thanks ---- Karen is blushing. I already sent a private e-mail with the protocol and offer of Sime~Gen knowledge to share. For everyone's information A COMPANION IN ZEOR will be 21 next month --- Some time in June. The exact date is lost in "ancient history." I can post a copy of the guidelines to the Simegen-l if anyone's interested. The last time I sent it was December or so. ---- Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 23:02:35 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jill Einsmann Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/10/99 9:55:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KLitman323@aol.com writes: << I can post a copy of the guidelines to the Simegen-l if anyone's interested. The last time I sent it was December or so. ---- Karen Litman >> hello Karen Im new to the list can you please post the guidelines im interested=) Jill ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:04:13 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-10 23:19:54 EDT, you write: << PaganWooki@aol.com >> ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:07:28 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My apologies to the list for a senseless e-mail which just came off my computer. I was working on a private reply, and I've been having mouse problems. The pressure of the mouse to put the content in the e-mail accidently sent off the letter unintended. I've seven cats, and they often toss the mouse on the floor while climbing on the computer. This time they really damaged it, and I haven't had time to replace it as yet. Its keys are held in place with box tape. Sorry. ------ Karen Litman ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:21:46 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:50 PM 05/10/1999 EDT, Karen wrote: >Thanks ---- Karen is blushing. I already sent a private e-mail with the >protocol and offer of Sime~Gen knowledge to share. For everyone's >information A COMPANION IN ZEOR will be 21 next month --- Some time in June. >The exact date is lost in "ancient history." > >I can post a copy of the guidelines to the Simegen-l if anyone's interested. >The last time I sent it was December or so. ---- Karen Litman I think it would be a good idea to put it in the next newsletter, which has to come out in the next few days anyway. That goes to the list as well as to subscribers, and is also posted to a website, where people can then be directed to find the guidelines. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:00:44 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: BACK: Questions re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello again, all Starting at the top of the digest. > Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:44:56 -0500 > From: Jean Lorrah > Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, > > Post them to the list--many people here are well-versed in the background > and will be happy to help you out. [AMO] Ummm... thank you very much, 1st) What is the percentage of junct (non-killing) Simes~Gens that -will- show endowment? (will they, nill they) 2nd) Does anyone have a 'laundry list' of endowments? 3rd) Does anyone mind if I set my stories in Russia (Moskva) and Eastern Europe? (Is that region taken yet?) 4th) If 3rd is ok, then just when did the Tecton manage to get to the Poland/Hungary/East Germany area? (I would assume that they wouldn't go all the way through the marshes to Moskva unless they -knew- someone was over there) 5th) (For future reference) Just what kind of firearms -are- the Gens using? (they really had the brass, steel and smokeless powder technology for 20th style firearms as shown in the books -and- were using animal traction? Huh?) 6th) Why is it that the Gens don't have handguns? (Particularly Derringer type) > Well, we would rather see a story outline (synopsis) _before_ you put the > effort into writing it. If you use the e-dress simegen@simegen.com, both > Jacqueline and I will get your outline. [AMO] Oops! Um... I'll type it in just as soon as I get the revisions to it caught up. I tend to pare at stories and focus them tighter as I go along, actually. From what I have read it seems that most people tend to ramble more as they go along. I write longhand on 5x8 notepads right now, so I have to type it into the 'puter, and it gets radically pared in that process anyways. (one 'puter, three adults ... I think you can figure out why I write long-hand) > Almost always, what you want to have happen _can_ happen in the Sime~Gen > universe. We just have to brainstorm _how_. Too often, a "how" that > doesn't fit the rules of the universe is written into the story, which > then > has to be discarded and begun over. [AMO] Actually that isn't a problem I am writing for the joy of writing, not because I particularly have a story I want to tell or because I want a finished product to show to other people. Basically I was being fussy one night and didn't want to read any of the mumble-thousand books we have, and so decided to write instead of read. :) > But at the outline stage it's easy to > redesign so that the same things happen, just for the _right_ reasons. [AMO] No problem. Actually wouldn't mind retelling this story after I do the first run through, just so that I have more to write on the subject. > So please come out of hiding. We're pretty friendly here. Jean [AMO] You are very kind. > Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:57:55 -0700 > From: Patric > Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, > > > > > I remodeled my place and it now has glass door to hide behind.. :) [AMO] ... > Neither one, actually. Someone taught me ages ago that the only > foolish question was the one that went unasked. Near as I can tell, > everyone here shares the same opinion, so ask away! [AMO] Yessss, welllllll.... I am just one of those engineering dweebs who couldn't produce art with a paint-by-numbers set, but I have fun trying anyways. Makes me even more timid about asking questions regarding such things though. (As if I weren't as shy as a new Sime anyways!) > Want me to install a glass door for you too? :) [AMO] > Take good care Anne-Marie. I look forward to hearing from you > again.. [AMO] And thank you for your response. [AMO] [Oops ... lost Jenn's header] > Ask. We aren't going to shoot you - or even force transfer. :) [AMO] *ick!* (on the latter) > Karen's cool - but then again, I haven't yet had her send a story back > with more > than minor red-pencilling. [AMO] Ahhhwwww .... no rutualistic murder of half the hen-house to pour blood all over the manuscript? I am so dissapointed, Not! (actually had one editor who used green pen, looked like a Vulcan bled all over the manuscript) > If you get stuck in a story, feel free to ask for advice - here or on the > writers-l@simegen.com list. [AMO] Once I grokked JL's outlining tecnique, stuck isn't a problem. Falling off the conflict line is the problem! (But I -want- to write long, drawn out, sloppy emotional background for the characters. Shutup you ... sorry all, noisy subconcious, was going to piddle in the word processor) Thank you again, all of you who responded! I really appreciate it. Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:39:01 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Oops, forgot something ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ok, mea culpa ... Goofed on two points ... my apologies to all of you for sending through a post with html tags attached. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Forgot a question, 1) Insulating fabric has been mentioned in the books, I would guess that it is similar to cloth of gold/silver in that it is silk warp/metal weft? (probably have those backwards) Am I correct? (this -can- be used for garments ... albeit heavy, awkward garments, but still) Or am I barking up the wrong tree entirely ... or loom as the case may be. Ann ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:58:19 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: De-lurking with questions, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-11 00:10:12 EDT, you write: << I've seven cats, and they often toss the mouse on the floor while climbing on the computer. This time they really damaged it, and I haven't had time to replace it as yet. Its keys are held in place with box tape. >> Cats will play with mice. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:11:04 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-11 11:13:46 EDT, you write: << 6th) Why is it that the Gens don't have handguns? (Particularly Derringer type) >> They probably do, but Derringers are not accurate and might well require a Gen using it against a Sime to get so close that the Sime could augment and disarm the Gen. Of course Gens might use them against other Gens more effectively. I would think that rifles or shotguns would be preferable against Simes. Rifles are accurate over much longer distances than handguns and shotguns scatter their shot over a broad enough area so that at close range they would not require aiming as accurately as a handgun would. Rifles would be prefered for border fighting where the Gens wouldn't want the Simes to get too close and shotguns would be best for shooting changeover victims who might be only a few feet away. Although there are many other factors involved (and I can tell you more if you are interested), a rough rule of thumb with rifles and handguns is the longer the barrel the more accurate the firearm. As for Gens having the technology for firearms but still using horses to get around, I have seen a rifle in the Metropolitan Museum of Art that dated from 1610. Both small arms and artillery of various sorts have been around for longer than that. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:13:55 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-11 11:13:46 EDT, you write: << Once I grokked JL's outlining tecnique, stuck isn't a problem. Falling off the conflict line is the problem! (But I -want- to write long, drawn out, sloppy emotional background for the characters. Shutup you ... sorry all, noisy subconcious, was going to piddle in the word processor) >> I hope I get to read your story some time. I suspect it is going to be fun! ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:44:20 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re In-Reply-To: from "Ann Partridge" at May 11, 99 07:11:04 pm Content-Type: text > In a message dated 99-05-11 11:13:46 EDT, you write: > > << 6th) Why is it that the Gens don't have handguns? (Particularly Derringer > type) >> > > They probably do, but Derringers are not accurate and might well require a > Gen using it against a Sime to get so close that the Sime could augment and > disarm the Gen. Of course Gens might use them against other Gens more > effectively. > > I would think that rifles or shotguns would be preferable against Simes. Shotguns, most probably. At close range, they're a lot more lethal than a rifle (a double-ought buckshot load can tear a man in two). At long range, any Sime worth the name will be able to zlin Gens and hide out of their sight -- you can't hit what you can't see. This business about charging across plowed fields indicates either _very_ new Simes (admittedly, a fair number of the ones Gens have to deal with) or people who are so need-crazed that self-preservation is over-ridden (a situation most juncts wouldn't let themselves get into if they could avoid it.) Yeah, I know the books say "rifles". I think they're really shotguns. Just chalk it up to vocabulary shifts over time ;) > Rifles are accurate over much longer distances than handguns and shotguns > scatter their shot over a broad enough area so that at close range they would > not require aiming as accurately as a handgun would. Rifles would be > prefered for border fighting where the Gens wouldn't want the Simes to get > too close and shotguns would be best for shooting changeover victims who > might be only a few feet away. Long-range border fighting, maybe -- but in most situations (except _very_ long-range where a spyglass out-ranges zlinning, or sniping situations by Gens who know how to conceal their field either by insulating material or other means), Simes simply won't expose themselves in rifle range if they can avoid it. > As for Gens having the technology for firearms but still using horses to get > around, I have seen a rifle in the Metropolitan Museum of Art that dated from > 1610. Both small arms and artillery of various sorts have been around for > longer than that. If metal is rare, then the Gens are probably using it first for weapons, and only secondarily for transport -- but mechanical transport is very heavily dependent on infrastructure: roads, fuel supplies, spare parts. There aren't going to be many of those in the border areas, since the Sime raiders will wreck them whenever possible to help prevent pursuits and counter-offensives. Horses can fuel themselves, make more of themselves, and get around in rough terrain where cars or even truacked vehicles would have real difficulty going. The industrial cores of Gen Territory may have railroads, and might even have cars (probably alcohol-fueled), but the border areas won't. Also, working automotive enginees require considerably finer quality control and production ability than guns. You can make guns on a lathe; fine machining is more complicated. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:06:32 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Olson, Ann Marie" wrote: > 1st) What is the percentage of junct (non-killing) Simes~Gens that -will- > show endowment? (will they, nill they) Since in the published books, we know very few junct-but-not-killing-Simes, I don't think anyone knows... and all of them but Risa and Sergi have been Farrises at that & you throw out the rulebook when it comes to Farrises. > 2nd) Does anyone have a 'laundry list' of endowments? Start with the laundry list of psychic abilities, toss out the ones which all Simes have just by scanning selyn fields, and add anything you can imagine which is necessary for your story. Then doublecheck with Jean and JL. :) > 3rd) Does anyone mind if I set my stories in Russia (Moskva) and Eastern > Europe? (Is that region taken yet?) Set your stories wherever you like, if they don't change overall history. If they do, set them wherever you like and check with Jean and JL. > 4th) If 3rd is ok, then just when did the Tecton manage to get to the > Poland/Hungary/East Germany area? (I would assume that they wouldn't go all > the way through the marshes to Moskva unless they -knew- someone was over > there) Some unspecified time after RenSime!, and before the stories (on the web sites) set in the spacefaring era. And if the people in Poland/Hungary/Eastern Europe knew someone was in Moskva, the Tecton would head there eventually. > 5th) (For future reference) Just what kind of firearms -are- the Gens using? > (they really had the brass, steel and smokeless powder technology for 20th > style firearms as shown in the books -and- were using animal traction? Huh?) > > 6th) Why is it that the Gens don't have handguns? (Particularly Derringer > type) Dunno, and dunno. :) Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:06:21 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jill Einsmann Subject: mouse problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi all << I've seven cats, and they often toss the mouse on the floor while climbing on the computer. This time they really damaged it, and I haven't had time to replace it as yet. Its keys are held in place with box tape. >> Cats will play with mice. Actually my mouse has delusions of lemming hood, it joyously leaps off the desk before the cats can get to it=) Jill ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:48:55 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:06 AM 05/12/1999 +1000, Jenn wrote: >"Olson, Ann Marie" wrote: > >> 1st) What is the percentage of junct (non-killing) Simes~Gens that -will- >> show endowment? (will they, nill they) > >Since in the published books, we know very few junct-but-not-killing-Simes, >I don't think anyone knows... and all of them but Risa and Sergi have been >Farrises at that & you throw out the rulebook when it comes to Farrises. Hank and Uel, too. All the early channel/companion pairs at Fort Freedom, and probably on into several generations after the founding of Zeor itself, unless Jacqueline puts the invention of the particular Zeor discipline that closes the junct pathways into _The Farris Channel_. But those who do not practice Zeor disciplines and ever have full-out Gen-controlled transfer (most pairs routinely trade off control, you know, if they haven't been taught otherwise) are technically junct in a way that will not be understood until after Unity. >> 2nd) Does anyone have a 'laundry list' of endowments? > >Start with the laundry list of psychic abilities, toss out the ones which >all Simes have just by scanning selyn fields, and add anything you can imagine >which is necessary for your story. > >Then doublecheck with Jean and JL. :) What do you need to have happen? We'll figure out how. >> 3rd) Does anyone mind if I set my stories in Russia (Moskva) and Eastern >> Europe? (Is that region taken yet?) > >Set your stories wherever you like, if they don't change overall history. >If they do, set them wherever you like and check with Jean and JL. > >> 4th) If 3rd is ok, then just when did the Tecton manage to get to the >> Poland/Hungary/East Germany area? (I would assume that they wouldn't go all >> the way through the marshes to Moskva unless they -knew- someone was over >> there) > >Some unspecified time after RenSime!, and before the stories (on the web sites) >set in the spacefaring era. And if the people in Poland/Hungary/Eastern Europe >knew someone was in Moskva, the Tecton would head there eventually. Hmmm--I think Jacqueline assumed that all of Europe and Asia (except possibly some far north or isolated desert or high mountain areas) was under Tecton control by RenSime. >> 5th) (For future reference) Just what kind of firearms -are- the Gens using? >> (they really had the brass, steel and smokeless powder technology for 20th >> style firearms as shown in the books -and- were using animal traction? Huh?) Same Huh? for 9th C. America. Other people have given good explanations. >> 6th) Why is it that the Gens don't have handguns? (Particularly Derringer >> type) I'm sure they do, but for Sime hunting you want rifles and shotguns. The same reasons you don't use handguns for deer hunting. Police and criminals in Gen cities would have handguns. But they are close-range weapons--it's too dangerous to get close enough to a Sime for a handgun to be effective. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:00:15 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> 4th) If 3rd is ok, then just when did the Tecton manage to get to the > >> Poland/Hungary/East Germany area? > >Some unspecified time after RenSime!, and before the stories (on the web sites) > >set in the spacefaring era. > Hmmm--I think Jacqueline assumed that all of Europe and Asia (except > possibly some far north or isolated desert or high mountain areas) was under > Tecton control by RenSime. That's one hell of a political and social change in one hell of a short time - what happened to Boston Tea Parties and the like? I would have assumed it would have taken several generations, at minimum - and Gen lifespans, not the foreshortened Junct Sime lifespans. But what do I know? I'm not one of the authors. Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:39:17 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:00 PM 05/12/1999 +1000, Jenn wrote: >> >> 4th) If 3rd is ok, then just when did the Tecton manage to get to the >> >> Poland/Hungary/East Germany area? >> >Some unspecified time after RenSime!, and before the stories (on the web > sites) >> >set in the spacefaring era. >> Hmmm--I think Jacqueline assumed that all of Europe and Asia (except >> possibly some far north or isolated desert or high mountain areas) was under >> Tecton control by RenSime. > >That's one hell of a political and social change in one hell of a short time - >what happened to Boston Tea Parties and the like? >I would have assumed it would have taken several generations, at minimum - and >Gen lifespans, not the foreshortened Junct Sime lifespans. I agree, Jenn. But if you remember, it's only since the existence of this list that we have persuaded Jacqueline that the "World Controller" of Laneff's day was not REALLY controller of the ENTIRE WORLD. She wanted to have it all sewed up, Alaska, the Andes, the Himilayas, every Pacific island, China, Madagascar--every scrap of human habitation. As that was not actually written into the books, though, we persuaded her to something more reasonable: North America and Europe definitely Tectonized, with large encroachments into other parts of the world, thus far unspecified--but definitely remote parts of the world still unconverted and living either junct and territorialized or some variation on direct transfer relationships. And _those_ are the interesting areas to write about--we now have not only Madagascar, but Kiri working on Japan and now Ann Marie looking at yet a different variation with channels operating as channels in Russia. >But what do I know? I'm not one of the authors. You know common sense, and you're right that the Tecton could not spread that fast, especially into areas that already had a stable and viable culture and no wish or good reason to change it. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 01:33:19 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 10 May 1999 to 11 May 1999 (#1999-130) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ann Marie >Rita Mae Brown's advice ... >"When you can't find anything you want to read, write your -own- book!" Was that at the intro to _Riding Shotgun_? Seems to me that's the one where she was blizzarded in and started thinking... Oh, for a little boredom! "Watch for falling assumptions!" _All_ unsolicited .exe files will be summarily deleted without opening. Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com www.wingedharper.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:18:47 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Sime in a Gen Hospital. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Aghhh! I don't know how Digen did it. I spent four hours at the hospital the other day while a doctor poked and proded my Companion. The worst of it was when he tried to insert a drip. He spent nearly five minutes fighting to get a vein that would not collapse. While watching the actual needle go in didn't bother me at all, it was the shear pain and frustration that Eliza went through that got to me. Gen doctors seem to be able to do these procedures with such ease. Well I guess Gens can't feel the pain they inflict. Eventually, after trying several spots he gave up, deciding that maybe she didn't really need a drip after all. Gee, he could have come to that discision before drilling. After a few tests and taking some blood, which was far less a problem than the drip, They have decided she now needs xrays. So there will be another trip to the hospital. Oh the places a Sime will go to follow her Gen, especially after turnover. Digen, I salute you! Stay Safe, Stay Strong, Stay as far away from Gen hospitals as possable. Zoe Farris. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:01:00 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > > You know common sense, and you're right that the Tecton could not spread > that fast, especially into areas that already had a stable and viable > culture and no wish or good reason to change it. Jean I know how stubborn cultures can be, too. :) How long did it take for foot-binding to die out? Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:04:38 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-11 19:50:36 EDT, you write: << At long range, any Sime worth the name will be able to zlin Gens and hide out of their sight -- you can't hit what you can't see. I am sure that Gen border patrols would know to hide behind rocks. They might not know that this prevents Simes from zlinning them, but they would have noticed over time that it helps keep Simes from discovering them. This business about charging across plowed fields indicates either _very_ new Simes (admittedly, a fair number of the ones Gens have to deal with) or people who are so need-crazed that self-preservation is over-ridden (a situation most juncts wouldn't let themselves get into if they could avoid it.) >> Certainly most of the unlicensed raiders would be very young desparate Simes who are either need-crazed or crazed from augmenting and taking way too many kills. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:08:39 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-11 20:07:28 EDT, you write: << Since in the published books, we know very few junct-but-not-killing-Simes, I don't think anyone knows... and all of them but Risa and Sergi have been Farrises at that & you throw out the rulebook when it comes to Farrises. >> The Rathorites, like Hal, Shanlun and Azevedo are all endowed aren't they? ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:15:01 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-12 06:26:00 EDT, you write: << After a few tests and taking some blood, which was far less a problem than the drip, They have decided she now needs xrays. So there will be another trip to the hospital. Oh the places a Sime will go to follow her Gen, especially after turnover. >> I hope Eliza is OK. Please wish here well for me and let us know what is happening. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:34:56 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Colleen M." Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-11 23:41:28 EDT, a21711f@MSUMUSIK.MURSUKY.EDU writes: << You know common sense, and you're right that the Tecton could not spread that fast, especially into areas that already had a stable and viable culture and no wish or good reason to change it. >> This gets me thinking . . . the fact that the Tecton is not literally world-wide means that a S~G pair who are able to have transfer together but are not "legal" under the Tecton would have more than one choice available to them. I'd always thought Tecton or Distect, nothing else, and have often envisioned pairs - or lone Gens who believed they could give transfer and wanted the opportunity to try - setting off in the dead of night to find the fabled Distect. But now I imagine there would be other "fabled" lands, as well, that they could set off to find, or they could, conceivably, just start travelling till they escaped the realm of Tecton influence. (Provided they were the hardy, adventuresome type and could cope with danger and trials.) A non-sanctioned pair could, perhaps, take a vacation to Europe - decide to "go camping" or something - and just keep going, never to return, while they looked for Moskva, or just some unnamed place where they could be themselves and perhaps found a place - neither Tecton nor Distect - where people like themselves could find sanctuary. The fact that the Tecton doesn't actually control the entire world opens up all kinds of interesting ideas! Colleen ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:29:39 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eliza and Zoe wrote: > Aghhh! I don't know how Digen did it. I spent four hours at the hospital > the other day while a doctor poked and proded my Companion. The worst of it > was when he tried to insert a drip. Moral: Never get your veins poked by a doctor: they are typically the *worst* (from lack of practice). Demand a professional phlebotomist. > Stay Safe, Stay Strong, Stay as far away from Gen hospitals as possable. Hospitals are not fit places to be sick in. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:36:10 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:34 AM 05/12/1999 EDT, Colleen wrote: >In a message dated 99-05-11 23:41:28 EDT, a21711f@MSUMUSIK.MURSUKY.EDU writes: > ><< You know common sense, and you're right that the Tecton could not spread > that fast, especially into areas that already had a stable and viable > culture and no wish or good reason to change it. >> > >This gets me thinking . . . the fact that the Tecton is not literally >world-wide means that a S~G pair who are able to have transfer together but >are not "legal" under the Tecton would have more than one choice available to >them. I'd always thought Tecton or Distect, nothing else, and have often >envisioned pairs - or lone Gens who believed they could give transfer and >wanted the opportunity to try - setting off in the dead of night to find the >fabled Distect. But now I imagine there would be other "fabled" lands, as >well, that they could set off to find, or they could, conceivably, just start >travelling till they escaped the realm of Tecton influence. (Provided they >were the hardy, adventuresome type and could cope with danger and trials.) A >non-sanctioned pair could, perhaps, take a vacation to Europe - decide to "go >camping" or something - and just keep going, never to return, while they >looked for Moskva, or just some unnamed place where they could be themselves >and perhaps found a place - neither Tecton nor Distect - where people like >themselves could find sanctuary. The fact that the Tecton doesn't actually >control the entire world opens up all kinds of interesting ideas! While all of the above is true, most people are not this brave, and don't _want_ to leave everything that smacks of home to learn a new language, new culture, new way of life. Also, the Tecton does its shennedest to make people _think_ it is world-wide--or that those areas of the world where it has not reached are wild junct areas perpetually on the verge of Zelerod's Doom. The existence of cultures where Simes and Gens live together safely and peacefully practicing direct transfer would seem fairy tales to most people under the Tecton. Note that only _once_ in the eight published novels have we heard such a story, and it was discounted as a tall tale. That's about right. So your scenario is not at all impossible, just highly unlikely. It would happen, but in very small numbers--nothing like waves of Europeans migrating to the U.S., which at least they _knew_ was a real place, even if some of their ideas of what it was like were pretty fanciful. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:41:22 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello all, For those of you who don't want to get into the umpteenth revision of the firearms debate, (seems to happen on most lists occasionally) those of us who do want to discuss it might want to be careful about headers on this one. >Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:11:04 EDT >From: Ann Partridge >Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re In a message dated 99-05-11 11:13:46 EDT, you write: << 6th) Why is it that the Gens don't have handguns? (Particularly Derringer type) >> >They probably do, but Derringers are not accurate and might well require a >Gen using it against a Sime to get so close that the Sime could augment and >disarm the Gen. Of course Gens might use them against other Gens more >effectively. The reason that I thought of derringers is for the sheer number of times in the books and stories the Sime grabs the rifle/shotgun from the Gen in question, and then lunges at him. That is -excatly- the situation derringers were designed for ... in a duel as a backup. (usually nasty that way, often ending in double kills) >I would think that rifles or shotguns would be preferable against Simes. >Rifles are accurate over much longer distances than handguns and shotguns >scatter their shot over a broad enough area so that at close range they would >not require aiming as accurately as a handgun would. Rifles would be >prefered for border fighting where the Gens wouldn't want the Simes to get >too close and shotguns would be best for shooting changeover victims who >might be only a few feet away. Handguns work for the latter as well, and far better than a rifle or shotgun, as they can be worn at all times. Admittedly it might be for story balance that the Gen has to got get his longarm down off the wall to get the berserker, but ... :) (doesn't work real well story wise, if all Gens have sidearms, and the changeover victim doesn't have time to get away) >Although there are many other factors involved (and I can tell you more if >you are interested), a rough rule of thumb with rifles and handguns is the >longer the barrel the more accurate the firearm. Ummm... I've been shooting firearms (all three types) since I was about 5. I shoot skeet on a regular basis, and also do some handgunning. (action pistol type stuff) Actually, so people, myself included, are -more- accurate with a handgun. Mostly a matter of practice out to about 200-300 yards, once the barrel length is over about 7 1/2 inches. (and I am sure that this is far more than most of you ever wanted to know) >As for Gens having the technology for firearms but still using horses to get >around, I have seen a rifle in the Metropolitan Museum of Art that dated from >1610. Rifle? Or smoothbore? Even though at that time it would have had to be a matchlock or flintlock. Even though if it is an actual rifle, my hat is off to the gunsmith, that is -impressive- to be able to rifle a barell by hand. (they didn't have the tech at that time to rifle a barel by machine. (rifling is the grooves on the inside of the barel to give spin to the bullet) >Both small arms and artillery of various sorts have been around for >longer than that. Late 15th century BCE actually, but those killed almost as many users as enemies. :) >From Tony Z. >If metal is rare, then the Gens are probably using it first for >weapons, and only secondarily for transport -- but mechanical >transport is very heavily dependent on infrastructure: roads, >fuel supplies, spare parts. There aren't going to be many of >those in the border areas, since the Sime raiders will wreck them >whenever possible to help prevent pursuits and counter-offensives. Actually I was thinking of the maintenece required for drawn brass cartriges and nitro powder. Both of these were rather late. Rifles, certainly, but with smokeless powder and self contained cartriges? That seemed to me to be a bit of a discontinuity. The mass production machining to make self contained cartriges is clearly 20th century, late-industrial technology, -not- 19th, no matter how hard someone tries. >Also, working automotive enginees require considerably finer >quality control and production ability than guns. You can make >guns on a lathe; fine machining is more complicated. Actually it isn't the fine machining of making the gun, it is making the ammunition. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:12:31 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Leigh Kimmel Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>This gets me thinking . . . the fact that the Tecton is not literally >>world-wide means that a S~G pair who are able to have transfer together but >>are not "legal" under the Tecton would have more than one choice available to >>them. I'd always thought Tecton or Distect, nothing else, and have often >>envisioned pairs - or lone Gens who believed they could give transfer and >>wanted the opportunity to try - setting off in the dead of night to find the >>fabled Distect. But now I imagine there would be other "fabled" lands, as >>well, that they could set off to find, or they could, conceivably, just start >>travelling till they escaped the realm of Tecton influence. (Provided they >>were the hardy, adventuresome type and could cope with danger and trials.) A >>non-sanctioned pair could, perhaps, take a vacation to Europe - decide to "go >>camping" or something - and just keep going, never to return, while they >>looked for Moskva, or just some unnamed place where they could be themselves >>and perhaps found a place - neither Tecton nor Distect - where people like >>themselves could find sanctuary. The fact that the Tecton doesn't actually >>control the entire world opens up all kinds of interesting ideas! > >While all of the above is true, most people are not this brave, and don't >_want_ to leave everything that smacks of home to learn a new language, new >culture, new way of life. True, but the people that *do* are the ones who get stories written about them, not the 90% of humanity who will bury their dissatisfactions and grit their teeth and Make the Best of It. Fiction provides a warped view of life because it *has* to, because by the very definition of modern Western commercial fiction it is about larger-than-life characters, who therefore represent the tiny minority who can't live inside the nice tidy boundaries of a regular life, who'll buck and kick until they get things changed to suit them or find a place that suits them, or die trying. -- Can't wait until _The Phantom Menace_ hits the theaters? Relive the joy of seeing the original Star Wars trilogy by getting them on tape http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/starwarstrilogy.html Leigh Kimmel -- writer, artist and historian kimmel@globaleyes.net http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/lhkwebpage.html keeper of the Sime~Gen mailing list, simegen-l@simegen-com Ask me how to order the new Sime~Gen novel!!! "Claws of Vengeance" now available at http://www.alexlit.com/ Visit my bookstore at http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:02:32 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zoe wrote: >Aghhh! I don't know how Digen did it. I spent four hours at the hospital >the other day while a doctor poked and proded my Companion. We'll be thinking of you. Hope everything will be ok. Larry Ulrey ulrey@juno.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:13:18 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Olson, Ann Marie wrote: > The reason that I thought of derringers is for the sheer number of times in > the books and stories the Sime grabs the rifle/shotgun from the Gen in > question, and then lunges at him. That is -excatly- the situation derringers > were designed for ... in a duel as a backup. (usually nasty that way, often > ending in double kills) Typical human reaction time for such things would be around 750 milliseconds, not counting the time it takes to get the gun into your hand from wherever it is. A Sime, therefore, could react in 75 milliseconds, which from the Gen's POV amounts to instantaneous. Just *think* about drawing the derringer and you are disarmed and/or dead. > Actually I was thinking of the maintenece required for drawn brass cartriges > and nitro powder. Both of these were rather late. Rifles, certainly, but > with smokeless powder and self contained cartriges? That seemed to me to be > a bit of a discontinuity. The mass production machining to make self > contained cartriges is clearly 20th century, late-industrial technology, > -not- 19th, no matter how hard someone tries. So we're talking about 18th-century style combat, with one shot every 30 seconds for crack troops. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:20:07 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Russia and Europe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Jenn, > > 3rd) Does anyone mind if I set my stories in Russia (Moskva) and Eastern > > Europe? (Is that region taken yet?) > > Set your stories wherever you like, if they don't change overall history. > If they do, set them wherever you like and check with Jean and JL. [AMO] Actually they can rather easily go either way, affecting the Tecton or not. (all depends on whether or not I do a second story ... right now it isn't a conflict) > > 4th) If 3rd is ok, then just when did the Tecton manage to get to the > > Poland/Hungary/East Germany area? (I would assume that they wouldn't go > all > > the way through the marshes to Moskva unless they -knew- someone was > over > > there) > > Some unspecified time after RenSime!, and before the stories (on the web > sites) > set in the spacefaring era. And if the people in Poland/Hungary/Eastern > Europe > knew someone was in Moskva, the Tecton would head there eventually. [AMO] Actually as the -current- story goes, no one in Europe knows anything about Russia or the east. (Warsaw to Moskva is over a month on standard horses, therefore I seriously doubt that bored adventurers would go that way ... in addition anyone who ran into the Rus would -not- be going back home) In their peculiar way, the Rus (in my story at least) are still the xenophobic, murder all the foreigners and isolate ourselves people they always have been. Basically anyone from the West who ran into the Rus before the time of the Tecton, would never go home. > Hmmm--I think Jacqueline assumed that all of Europe and Asia (except > possibly some far north or isolated desert or high mountain areas) was > under > Tecton control by RenSime. [AMO] Ambitious. We haven't managed to wipe out the Beduin, the Barb, the Turkoman the other various desert tribes yet, and we have been desperately trying for over half a century, with attack aircraft and modern tanks. She thinks that with the much lower population base that the Tecton will be able to? (personally I think the Beduin would be -very- happy campers in the S~G era, I just wouldn't want to have to deal with them!) Actually Moskva and environs, would probably be classified as isolated Asia by the time of the rise of the Tecton in Europe. It is approximately 600 miles from Moskva to Warsaw. With horses that is anywhere from a -minimum- of 10 days, to a typical of 30. (I ride endurance, 60 mi/day is possible, just very difficult, and requires -very- good horses, the pony express was 50 mi/day) This would probably make Moskva into 'here be dragons' territory. (which is would have been in our history up until rather late if the Mongolian hordes handn't kept flattening it on their way to Europe) > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:00:15 +1000 > From: "Jenn V." > Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re > > That's one hell of a political and social change in one hell of a short > time - > what happened to Boston Tea Parties and the like? > I would have assumed it would have taken several generations, at minimum - > and > Gen lifespans, not the foreshortened Junct Sime lifespans. > > But what do I know? I'm not one of the authors. > >From Jean Lorrah > I agree, Jenn. But if you remember, it's only since the existence of this > list that we have persuaded Jacqueline that the "World Controller" of > Laneff's day was not REALLY controller of the ENTIRE WORLD. She wanted to > have it all sewed up, Alaska, the Andes, the Himilayas, every Pacific > island, China, Madagascar--every scrap of human habitation. [AMO] I happen to agree with you completely, Jenn and Jean. Particularly for any place that was effectively 'off the map'. (such as Moskva, all of Central Asia, Mongolia, Siberia, Central and Jungle Africa etc.) My general guess is that any location that is more than a 14 days of riding (about 420-450 miles) from civilization or the coast would be 'off the map', unless there were stop over points along the way, as happened in North America. Basically because of the need cycle and such limitations. > You know common sense, and you're right that the Tecton could not spread > that fast, especially into areas that already had a stable and viable > culture and no wish or good reason to change it. Jean [AMO] That is much of why I started writing the story I did. I thought of a -different- way that the S~G culture could have turned out, and then placed it where it would fit from the attitudes, emotional makeup and physical location made sense. (of course it helps that I took some Russian in HS and know a bit about the culture and makeup of the people of the area. :) ) Even though if I continue with the region, it will probably be almost as spectacular (if not more so) if the Tecton runs into the Rus as when the Tecton runs into Madagascar. Madagascar is a peaceful civilization, the Rus are decidedly -not-. > So your scenario is not at all impossible, just highly unlikely. It would > happen, but in very small numbers--nothing like waves of Europeans > migrating > to the U.S., which at least they _knew_ was a real place, even if some of > their ideas of what it was like were pretty fanciful. Jean [AMO] I agree with you completely. That and I would guess that some of the cultures that survived by figuring out transfer (rather than the N. American solution) would be -very- nasty to strangers, far more than the Rus. Such as the Lapps or the peoples of Siberia (can't cudgel my brain into remembering their names) ... my guess is that they would set up a society where Sime=Shaman/Warrior, not a group I would want to meet in a place where it gets the sun goes down and then doesn't come back up again for a month and a half! (particularly since psychidelic use and other forms of 'primitive magick' are very common in such tribes) Even though the story of the first time a Farris runs into one of those groups would make a -very- good story, if sie didn't just keel over in a dead faint. Ann Marie Olson And if anyone ever has the thought that I am P.C. I would like to disabuse that notion right now! :) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:58:47 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Farlie Dragon Subject: Re: mouse problems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > From: Jill Einsmann > Actually my mouse has delusions of lemming hood, it joyously leaps off the > desk before the cats can get to it=) > > Jill I don't have any cats (I wish I did tho) and my mouse STILL goes off the cliff. I, too think mine thinks it's a lemming. Either that or It's mad that we play games without it. Farlie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:17:40 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 - Unfinished MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:12:31 -0500 > From: Leigh Kimmel > Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re > > >While all of the above is true, most people are not this brave, and don't > >_want_ to leave everything that smacks of home to learn a new language, > new > >culture, new way of life. > > True, but the people that *do* are the ones who get stories written about > them, not the 90% of humanity who will bury their dissatisfactions and > grit > their teeth and Make the Best of It. [AMO] Umm... actually many of the classic plots, (the ones with whiskers down to the floor) are about fairly normal people. An example that springs immediately to mind is the Pygmalion (My Fair Lady) plot. Pygmalion is very much a standard sort of person of his time, and not really one to 'buck the trend', other than the fact that he wants more than a mortal woman can give him. And even his effort to make a woman he can love, is very much a part of how he makes his daily living, not really an effort beyond Making the Best of what he has. (and in a lot of ways, his creation of Galatea -is- an example of making the best of what he has) Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:27:05 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Gregory Jao Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In our discussions about places where the Tecton isn't, it sounds like we're assuming that alternative S~G cultures exist AND ARE VIABLE in every one of those areas. Isn't it equally likely (and required by the background of S~G) that many (if not most) of those places w/o the Tecton have experienced Zelerod's Doom? Exceptions would exist, but I'd expect that they'd be rarer. Greg ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:23:45 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Nova Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Ann Partridge > > to get around, I have seen a rifle in the Metropolitan Museum of Art that > dated from 1610. Both small arms and artillery of various sorts have been around > for longer than that. > Not to mention it is a piece of cake to make firearms. Making a viechel is a heck of a lot more difficult. Nova -The Boogy Gen http://www.li.net/~nova ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:37:18 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:13:18 -0400 > From: John Cowan > Subject: Re: Firearms > > Olson, Ann Marie wrote: > > > The reason that I thought of derringers is for the sheer number of times > in > > the books and stories the Sime grabs the rifle/shotgun from the Gen in > > question, and then lunges at him. That is -excatly- the situation > derringers > > were designed for ... in a duel as a backup. (usually nasty that way, > often > > ending in double kills) > > Typical human reaction time for such things would be around 750 > milliseconds, > not counting the time it takes to get the gun into your hand from > wherever it is. > > A Sime, therefore, could react in 75 milliseconds, which from the > Gen's POV amounts to instantaneous. Just *think* about drawing the > derringer and you are disarmed and/or dead. [AMO] In a wrist holster? Particularly with practice. That and the reaction time of a Sime is brutally fast, but they still are restricted by conservation of momentum. i.e. they couln't change movement vectors -that- much faster than a well trained Gen. (they would loose traction with the ground/floor if they tried, no matter how strong you are, F=mA)Watching a Kendo or Shotokan master is -way- impressive ... amazing what training can do insofar as reaction times and ability to move quickly. And the training in most of the martial arts is exactly -how- to overcome the F=mA problem of extremely rapid movement. Imagine an Aikido master level Gen dealing with Simes in combat (what I am using in Russia) ... scary. The poor Sime wouldn't have a chance. Or even more extreme, Tai Chi against Simes. Who ever said Simes were stronger than Gens. The energy flow patterns of the 'soft' styles of martial arts are absolutely -perfect- for Sime~Gen combat. (myself, I have barely messed with Tai Chi, Shotokan and Kendo ... but I do have some of the basics) > So we're talking about 18th-century style combat, with one shot every > 30 seconds for crack troops. [AMO] :Pbbt' Not that bad, certainly. A Sharps 50/140 (which is actually the sort of longarm I think of the Gen Army using) actually has a fire rate of about 3-5 rounds per minute. (I may have this number wrong, but probably within a factor of 2) Basically I would think they would be limited to black powder, and non-drawn brass amunition. (and there is a -lot- that can be done in that range) Would also make sense with the Simes being able to get to the Gen Army ... after volly fire with black powder weapons, the troops can't see a thing and are firing blind due to the smoke cloud, at which point the Simes would definately have the upper hand. [AMO] Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:42:39 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello Greg, > In our discussions about places where the Tecton isn't, it sounds like > we're > assuming that alternative S~G cultures exist AND ARE VIABLE in every one > of > those areas. Isn't it equally likely (and required by the background of > S~G) > that many (if not most) of those places w/o the Tecton have experienced > Zelerod's Doom? Exceptions would exist, but I'd expect that they'd be > rarer. [AMO] Yes well, but what is the use of -talking- about the ones that didn't survive. :) Personally I wouldn't give India a snowflakes chance of surviving the mutation with more than about 10-20K people surviving after the death rate in the mutation, massive plagues afterwards, (from unburied bodies) too many places where Simes can hide -and- get to Gens, and general social practices on the Indian sub-continent. Myself, I would say that many of the 'primitive' cultures would survive quite nicely. I don't really see that much difference between the Shaman/Magician archetype and a Sime. Plus the fact that many of those cultures have traditions of sacrifice to appease the Shaman/Magician. *shrug* YMMV certainly, but this is just my 2 cents. Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:01:23 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990512162705.006ca6bc@pop6.ibm.net> from "Gregory Jao" at May 12, 99 11:27:05 am Content-Type: text > In our discussions about places where the Tecton isn't, it sounds like we're > assuming that alternative S~G cultures exist AND ARE VIABLE in every one of > those areas. Isn't it equally likely (and required by the background of S~G) > that many (if not most) of those places w/o the Tecton have experienced > Zelerod's Doom? Exceptions would exist, but I'd expect that they'd be rarer. A number probably have. It boils down to the question of "what constitutes a viable society?" So far, there are four major possibilities in the S~G universe: 1) Tecton-style channel's transfer; works, but sub-optimal 2) Distect-style direct S~G transfer: works, but rather vulnerable to slipping over into the junct hunter-killer mode 3) The Gen Territory solution: kill all Simes. Works, but... 4) A discussion on the list a while back brought up possibility 4, "lotus-eating", wherein one drugs Gens to unconsciousness (so they aren't in a position to fear anything) and then lets the Sime take selyn. Works, but absolutely no pleasure for either side. (And, of course, number 5, junct Sime society, but that's not viable in the long run due to Zelerod's Doom.) I don't think anyone's come up with another possible transfer economy (though I'd certainly like to see some suggestions). Note that the question of the Tecton World Controller's authority is, strictly speaking, independent of this issue: it might be possible to have Tecton-style areas living on channel's transfer but _not_ under the authority of the Tecton _per se_, in much the same way that France, Britain, and America are all industrial democracies, but are _not_ the same society. LIkewise, you could have an area (say in Europe) that had either invented channel's transfer independently or copied it from the Tecton, but deliberately did not join the organization based in the old Nivet Territory. We know that Madagascar is a Distect-style zone independent of Tecton control; it's possible that others exist. Lotus-eating as a lifestyle may be common in other areas, but I think that it would tend to fall apart after some exposure to channel's transfer or direct transfer (since either of those methods are _much_ better for the Sime to experience). Then again, it might have stabilities that the other two methods don't. And, of course, there's always the Gen method of killing the Simes lurking in the background. It _does_ work, in a way... But I'm not aware of any other methods (as opposed to divisions in political organizations) for long-term viable S~G societies. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:19:28 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Olson, Ann Marie wrote: > In a wrist holster? Particularly with practice. That and the reaction time > of a Sime is brutally fast, but they still are restricted by conservation of > momentum. i.e. they couln't change movement vectors -that- much faster than > a well trained Gen. A well-trained channel can probably deflect high-velocity bullets (I'm talking about ordinary lead, not specialized frag rounds etc.) in mid-course. Endowed channel Yone Farris is able to prevent a *tree* (size not given, probably 50-100 feet and broad) from falling and then fling it in a different direction! (Admittedly he draws his energy from 8th-dimensional fairies.) > Imagine an Aikido master level Gen dealing with Simes in combat (what I am > using in Russia) ... scary. The poor Sime wouldn't have a chance. Or even > more extreme, Tai Chi against Simes. Who ever said Simes were stronger than > Gens. The energy flow patterns of the 'soft' styles of martial arts are > absolutely -perfect- for Sime~Gen combat. (myself, I have barely messed with > Tai Chi, Shotokan and Kendo ... but I do have some of the basics) > > > So we're talking about 18th-century style combat, with one shot every > > 30 seconds for crack troops. > [AMO] > :Pbbt' Not that bad, certainly. A Sharps 50/140 (which is actually the sort > of longarm I think of the Gen Army using) actually has a fire rate of about > 3-5 rounds per minute. (I may have this number wrong, but probably within a > factor of 2) Basically I would think they would be limited to black powder, > and non-drawn brass amunition. (and there is a -lot- that can be done in > that range) Would also make sense with the Simes being able to get to the > Gen Army ... after volly fire with black powder weapons, the troops can't > see a thing and are firing blind due to the smoke cloud, at which point the > Simes would definately have the upper hand. > > [AMO] Ann Marie Olson > the black powder era of military SF> > > ---------- > You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. > To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to > LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text > "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". > ---------- -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:17:51 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Olson, Ann Marie wrote: > > > In a wrist holster? Particularly with practice. That and the reaction > time > > of a Sime is brutally fast, but they still are restricted by > conservation of > > momentum. i.e. they couln't change movement vectors -that- much faster > than > > a well trained Gen. > > A well-trained channel can probably deflect high-velocity bullets > (I'm talking about ordinary lead, not specialized frag rounds etc.) > in mid-course. Endowed channel Yone Farris is able to prevent a > *tree* (size not given, probably 50-100 feet and broad) from > falling and then fling it in a different direction! > (Admittedly he draws his energy from 8th-dimensional fairies.) [AMO] Hey! No fair bringing endowment into the picture! I was talking your run of the mill, generic renSime from any time during the published novels. Given endowment, well that throws a lot of stuff out the window, since I would assume an telekenic could compensate for a lack of friction by pushing in both directions at the same time. Ann Marie Olson > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:26:46 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > 4) A discussion on the list a while back brought up possibility > 4, "lotus-eating", wherein one drugs Gens to unconsciousness (so > they aren't in a position to fear anything) and then lets the > Sime take selyn. Works, but absolutely no pleasure for either side. Sounds like Fort Freedom before Rimon. > I don't think anyone's come up with another possible transfer > economy (though I'd certainly like to see some suggestions). 6) Keon-style: channel-monitored direct transfer pairs, some channel's transfer. 7) Madagascar (Simes as slaves, not quite Distect which is basically free association, like marriage in the developed world today). 8) The shamanistic mode that's been discussed recently: a few Simes are preserved as shamans and fed by the tribe's weaklings in junct transfer (presumably the remaining Simes are destroyed during changeover). 9) Chanel-style: Donors and Channels are therapists Etc. > Note that the question of the Tecton World Controller's authority is, > strictly speaking, independent of this issue: Methinks the World Controller is a lot like the World Series. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:37:49 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Olson, Ann Marie wrote: > Hey! No fair bringing endowment into the picture! I was talking your > run of the mill, generic renSime from any time during the published novels. Agreed. But I did say "channel": it seems to me that if Yone can juggle trees, Klyd should be able to deflect bullets with his hands. Of course, he needs to use a fairly small angle of deflection to keep the bullet from penetrating. Just *dodging* bullets should be downright trivial using his reaction times: drop to the ground or leap out of the way. In HoZ he breaks Hugh's fall from 25 feet away or so. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:37:23 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries In-Reply-To: <1583828ED67FD211A31D006008277B19236D3C@mail.gammametrics.com> from "Olson, Ann Marie" at May 12, 99 09:42:39 am Content-Type: text > Myself, I would say that many of the 'primitive' cultures would survive > quite nicely. I don't really see that much difference between the > Shaman/Magician archetype and a Sime. Plus the fact that many of those > cultures have traditions of sacrifice to appease the Shaman/Magician. > *shrug* YMMV certainly, but this is just my 2 cents. The problem is the _numbers_. ONE Sime in a tribe of 50 people will kill the entire tribe in a little under four years, which is not enough time for them to breed replacements. And with one out of three Gen/Gen births being Sime, you've got a lot more than that to deal with. I can see a society evolving where one Sime dwells in an area as "Big Man" and kills off all the other local Simes, taking the local criminals as his kills and protecting the rest of the community. I suspect such a society would rapidly become unstable and collapse (either into Zelerod's Doom, if the Sime tries to get a few more Simes so he can have companionship, or into a Gen revolt that gets rid of the Sime , if the Gens get tired of getting killed). But it might last, or rise up again, in some areas. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:52:18 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > The problem is the _numbers_. ONE Sime in a tribe of 50 people will > kill the entire tribe in a little under four years, which is not > enough time for them to breed replacements. Certainly. But if you are going to worry about that, lots of canonical parts (like the Pen system) become flat-out impossible anyhow. Nothing like the junct society of Rimon's time is even possible without some way to accelerate the time-to-maturity of human cattle (not even a vegetarian option to help out). K-selectors like humans (high time to maturity, low birth rate) just can't be consistent prey animals: any predator that depends on them goes rapidly extinct, and if prey and predator are the same species, Zelerod's Doom is swift, immediate, and final. Result: no stories. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:49:05 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries In-Reply-To: <3739B9D6.23316FF3@locke.ccil.org> from "John Cowan" at May 12, 99 01:26:46 pm Content-Type: text > Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > > 4) A discussion on the list a while back brought up possibility > > 4, "lotus-eating", wherein one drugs Gens to unconsciousness (so > > they aren't in a position to fear anything) and then lets the > > Sime take selyn. Works, but absolutely no pleasure for either side. > > Sounds like Fort Freedom before Rimon. No. They were killing the pen Gens. > > I don't think anyone's come up with another possible transfer > > economy (though I'd certainly like to see some suggestions). > > 6) Keon-style: channel-monitored direct transfer pairs, some > channel's transfer. A blend of (1) and (2); not fundamentally different. (More correctly, (1) in the process of switching over to (2).) > 7) Madagascar (Simes as slaves, not quite Distect which is > basically free association, like marriage in the developed world today). Madagascar is just somewhat further along the road than the Distect in the development of direct transfer and the accompanying lifestyle. Ask Jean why Simes are natural slaves ;) (I think that whatever came back from Yone's World must have been the solution to _this_ problem.) > 8) The shamanistic mode that's been discussed recently: a few > Simes are preserved as shamans and fed by the tribe's weaklings > in junct transfer (presumably the remaining Simes are destroyed > during changeover). Unless they survive, break loose, and come after the big guy ;) Still, I don't think this really works as the basis for a large society (in numbers, you either get a Sime Territory pretty rapidly, or else Zelerod's Doom, or else the Gens rebel and take over. It only works as long as the population involved is small.) > 9) Chanel-style: Donors and Channels are therapists Would you mind explaining this one a bit more? I'm not familiar with it. > > Note that the question of the Tecton World Controller's authority is, > > strictly speaking, independent of this issue: > > Methinks the World Controller is a lot like the World Series. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:53:49 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries In-Reply-To: <3739BFD2.2D4A206C@locke.ccil.org> from "John Cowan" at May 12, 99 01:52:18 pm Content-Type: text > Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > > The problem is the _numbers_. ONE Sime in a tribe of 50 people will > > kill the entire tribe in a little under four years, which is not > > enough time for them to breed replacements. > > Certainly. But if you are going to worry about that, lots of > canonical parts (like the Pen system) become flat-out impossible > anyhow. Nothing like the junct society of Rimon's time is > even possible without some way to accelerate the time-to-maturity > of human cattle (not even a vegetarian option to help out). There's always the lotus-eating option in the Pens (drug the Gen to the point where they'll survive a killmode attack, let them build up their selyn supply, repeat as necessary). Which also neatly explains why Pen kills are so "tasteless" I agree that large chunks of canon _are_ impossible, though. > K-selectors like humans (high time to maturity, low birth rate) > just can't be consistent prey animals: any predator that depends > on them goes rapidly extinct, and if prey and predator are the > same species, Zelerod's Doom is swift, immediate, and final. > Result: no stories. Sad, isn't it ;) Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:00:24 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Laura Kulick Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi! I am a new de-lurking fan! This conversation has gotten too interesting for me to just read, so I thought I would add my 2 cents worth. For the Shaman/magician method, I don't think they would necessarily need to kill the Gen. If the ceremony were ritualistic enough, the Gen might have no fear either through familiarity with the process (seeing it done every month) or because a ritualistic ceremony might cause a rather hypnotic state for transfer.. > Myself, I would say that many of the 'primitive' cultures would survive > quite nicely. I don't really see that much difference between the > Shaman/Magician archetype and a Sime. Plus the fact that many of those > cultures have traditions of sacrifice to appease the Shaman/Magician. > *shrug* YMMV certainly, but this is just my 2 cents. The problem is the _numbers_. ONE Sime in a tribe of 50 people will kill the entire tribe in a little under four years, which is not enough time for them to breed replacements. And with one out of three Gen/Gen births being Sime, you've got a lot more than that to deal with. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:42:57 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > Sounds like Fort Freedom before Rimon. > > No. They were killing the pen Gens. OIC. > A blend of (1) and (2); not fundamentally different. As different as state socialism (Tecton) vs. small-scale free enterprise (Keon). Some of the Keon model survives into the Tecton (paying donors, mainly), but it's still a Soviet Socialist Republic at heart. > (I think that whatever came back from Yone's World must have > been the solution to _this_ problem.) *I* think that what came back from Yone's World was a loud and clear TMTOWTDI message. ("There's more than one way to do it.") The Tecton, Last of the Dinosaurs, finally gets the message. > > 8) The shamanistic mode that's been discussed recently: a few > > Simes are preserved as shamans and fed by the tribe's weaklings > > in junct transfer (presumably the remaining Simes are destroyed > > during changeover). > > Unless they survive, break loose, and come after the big guy ;) They don't, because they are held captive by overwhelming religious terror. In such societies, tribal cohesion is *everything*. Remember the oldsters dying on the ice floes... > Still, I don't think this really works as the basis for a large > society (in numbers, you either get a Sime Territory pretty > rapidly, or else Zelerod's Doom, or else the Gens rebel and take > over. It only works as long as the population involved is > small.) I agree. > > 9) Chanel-style: Donors and Channels are therapists > > Would you mind explaining this one a bit more? > I'm not familiar with it. I don't know that I can. But judging by the fanfic it seems to be rooted in a more personal model than the Tecton's medical one, more like a psychological model. (Chanel folks?) -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:47:49 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Kiri Aradia Morgan Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 12 May 1999, Leigh Kimmel wrote: > >While all of the above is true, most people are not this brave, and don't > >_want_ to leave everything that smacks of home to learn a new language, new > >culture, new way of life. > > True, but the people that *do* are the ones who get stories written about > them, not the 90% of humanity who will bury their dissatisfactions and grit > their teeth and Make the Best of It. > And some of us ARE. Just how else do you end up in San Francisco studying Japanese and planning your move overseas after growing up in Appalachia... and doing it so convincingly that people on a number of internet MLs think that you ARE native Japanese...? People like this do exist. I am one of them. Usually it comes from a strong innate sense that you don't belong where you found yourself as a child. People like this don't mind leaving behind everything that smacks of home because we never felt we had a home anyway. I never knew what homesickness was, or the feeling of returning home, until I saw the lights on the Japanese shoreline while my plane was coming in to Narita... and I never knew how awful homesickness could feel until the first time I saw the streets of Shibuya in a movie after I came back from Japan... Kiri, who knows Hiroshi isn't fooled... and is still working on the Monogatari, but has been really swamped lately... ****************************************************************************** Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God tiamat@tsoft.com "If time passes, everything turns into beauty If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away Everything starts wearing fresh colors Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:06:35 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:27 AM 05/12/1999 -0500, Greg wrote: >In our discussions about places where the Tecton isn't, it sounds like we're >assuming that alternative S~G cultures exist AND ARE VIABLE in every one of >those areas. Isn't it equally likely (and required by the background of S~G) >that many (if not most) of those places w/o the Tecton have experienced >Zelerod's Doom? Exceptions would exist, but I'd expect that they'd be rarer. Yes, indeed--one of the assumptions of S~G is that ZD has happened in many times and places. However, once the land is empty of humans, and the exceptionally harsh winter or flood season or drought or whatever is over, people are likely to move into that territory again. No, we are not assuming that there are VIABLE alternative cultures everywhere, just that humans are pretty good survivors overall, so we are going to see them clinging to some form of life practically everywhere that humans exist today, except in smaller numbers. Some places will still be in a kind of wild state, without territories, bestial Simes hunting bestial Gens who have at most a tribal system and remain perpetually on the run. In other places Gens will live in fortified castle-like villages, constantly besieged by Simes. In places where life is nasty, brutish, and short, the Tecton will probably find it quite easy to proselytize, if not downright usurp. It's the places that HAVE worked out a viable and comfortable alternative that will resist. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:29:43 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Karen Litman Subject: Perspectives Newsletter -- May 1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sime~Gen Perspectives Newsletter May 1999 Brought to you by Sime~Gen (TM) Inc. May 12, 1999 NEWS: We are pleased to announce once again that House of Zeor is now available online at Bibliobytes House of Zeor was the first Sime~Gen novel published and has been out of print for some time. The other Sime~Gen novels will also be available on Bibliobytes over the next few months. Ambrov Keon and Zelerod_s Doom are both being prepared for this site. ROMANCE REPORT: 1. Chat with New York Editor 2. Review section going strong. 3. New people moving in. 4. Upcoming Chats 1. Chat with New York Editor: Friday night was our chat with Assistant Editor Patience Smith of Steeple Hill and Harlequin Historicals. It started out a disaster when Patience could get there, but couldn't post. She had to download special software. Thinking this would discourage people, we were surprised by the end of the night to have had 35 contacts, some who couldn't make it because of a software glitch[which Dancer, bless his heart, fixed]. We DO get these logs and post them for you to review--only thing is, you can't ask your own questions that way. However, please be sure to check out the link if you're interested in the romance genre. http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/library.html 2. The review section is going great with over 20 volunteers who review books each month. Please be sure to stop by and see the wonderful job Lisa has done with it. http://www.simegen.com/reviews 3. New Writers Moving in. We welcome Lenora Worth aka Lenora Nazworth who writes both for Steeple Hill and then Dorchester. The latter are paranormal romances that are currently quite popular in this sub-genre. Be sure to check out her address at http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/webpages.html Also, Carole Gift Page, a writer who has been writing over 20 years now is in the process of moving into the writing web community! 4. Please check out our upcoming chats. We'll be talking with Lionhearted Publishing who has a book that is soon to be a movie by Katherine Greyle. We also have two romance related chats coming up and then Some general writing chats. We have the chats every other Friday from 9pm EST 8pm CST 6pm PST and for you a+6 GMT from the Centrail [-5 gmt]. Good luck figuring it out. http://www.simegen.com/out-t/romance/events.html We hope to have a couple of other paranormal/futuristic editors soon to speak! Watch for more announcements. ************************* Ever Wanted to Go to France, But Just Couldn't Justify It? Come join the Provence Writer's Workshop May 13-31, 1999 http://www.wordchasers.com Two intensive weeks of training, where members will enjoy rigorous sessions on the fundamentals of poetry, fiction, and non-fiction, as taught by skilled professional writers and teachers. *************************************************** Sime~Gen Inc. and the WorldCrafter's Guild writing school are now on www.simegen.com -- you can sign up for the school. http://www.bb.com has a preliminary posting of House of Zeor by Jacqueline Lichtenberg, the first Sime~Gen novel published -- a rare book collectors have paid $140 for now available to read free online, with more to follow. If BiblioBytes still doesn't have its search engine fixed, there is a link directly to the beginning of the book from http://www.simegen.com which leads to Chapter One. While you are at simegen.com, join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf VirtualTecton Webring, sign up for any of the free Email S~G Newsletters (a fewpages, twice a month max) at http://www.simegen.com/archives/ WorldCrafters Guild is a Trade Mark of Sime~Gen Inc. *************************************************** Please visit our advertisers' websites. They make this free service possible. *************************************************** EVER WONDER WHERE THE FARRISES CAME FROM....... Here’s the answer from Jacqueline Lichtenberg herself The actual answer is lost in the mists of time. I don't remember EVER not-knowing the name of this genetically challenged family. I must have been about 15 at the time I named the Farrises, and I'm 57 now. The first to be named was Digen Farris. Farris was to me at that time a fairly ordinary, common family name -- which I felt was just a variant of Ferris as in Ferris Wheel. At that time (1955 or 1956 or there about -- to around 1960) the THEORY of DNA/RNA as a genetic code was making newspaper front page stories, and Nobel prizes. It was the considered opinion of these science writers that it was theoretically impossible for scientists ever to "read" the genetic code. SF writers, however, were already proceding upon the assumption that it would be no problem at all to read the code, and then to engineer variations. All this thinking was way, way beyond the ability of ordinary people to comprehend, and I was the only living person I knew who could pronounce the words in which one discussed such matters! The most prevalent theme in SF at that time was the "after the bomb" story -- peopled with characters who were mutants because of radiation poisoning. My favorite was _Star Man's Son_ by Andre Norton. All the "after the bomb" stories with mutants as characters were predicated on the assumption that mutation was inherently BAD, that the character of people would not be changed by it except for the worse, (destroying civilization would make everyone into survivalists with no thought for any stranger except to murder them on sight), and that only by sheer accident would anything good come of mutation. The "good" would be "powers" such as telepathy or telekinesis -- and only the very rare "hero" would ever respond to possessing power like that by considering the morality and ethics involved in the use of power. In other words, the underlying themes were always "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." But I had grabbed hold of the theory of sf-story-generating. I realized that all these authors were missing a bet, buying into an assumption set prevalent in our society rather than thinking for themselves as sf/f was suppposed to train the mind to do. So, seeing all these stories all with the same theme, -- written as if there were no other possible thematic statement to make on the subject of mutation and power -- I decided to launch my writing career (yes I'd decided to be a professional fiction writer when I was 16 years old) with a series of "after the bomb" stories about a mutation that a)was engineered by divine force to be to humanity's benefit even though humanity had just destroyed the world because of greed and fear, and b)would bestow true POWER (the Endowment) to which the dominant response would NOT BE to become corrupted, absolutely or otherwise. That is not to say that SOME humans wouldn't abuse power -- there are always some. But that the civilization and society that are reborn from the ashes would be dominated by those who shun the abuse of power (who don't Kill -- who don't take what they Need (selyn) without asking, but who ask politely and offer recompense.) To make this sf premise "work" -- I had to invent a theory of how it could be that humans would go from the way the really are now to how they had to be then in order to create such a civilization. So I thought about it from an sf writer's point of view, and I invented REINCARNATION (without knowing that word for it) without ever having heard of that theory. (yes, I led a sheltered life) I thought I had a brilliant original theory. *sigh* I invented a world where every time you act on greed or fear, you die. Ugly, bad nasty deaths, too. Even the dimmest witted among us would realize after a few deaths that greed and fear are not useful responses to the world and change. As billions of souls went through this process, eventually the majority of humans alive in the world (who lived long enough to mature, that is) would have a little tiny bit more compassion in their characters than your ordinary Ancient like you and me. Just the tiniest change in a large number of individuals would shift the paradigm underlying the entire civilization. All this I invented when I was 15 to 16 years old. I began writing these stories down when I was about 27. In the interim, I had learned a lot about writing, about people, and about reincarnation and karma, not to mention RNA/DNA theory and science in general (I had taken a degree in Chemistry with minors in Physics and Math, and very little biology). So by then I knew enough to include conflict in my story -- but it took Jean Lorrah to create the best CONFLICT of all -- Keon vs. Zeor. Oh, and the name Digen -- that I made up whole cloth out of nothing at all. Just exactly like Reincarnation. I'm still waiting to find out where it is a common name! Klyd is named for Clyde Beatty -- of circus fame. There used to be a radio show about his adventures trapping animals in "deepest, darkest Africa" for his circus. I loved that show but had never, ever, heard of anyone else named Clyde, so I wanted one of my characters to have that name. I just remembered that now because my daughter gave me some tapes of Superman meets Batman radio shows from the mid-1940's for my b'day. (the shows that first introduced Kryptonite) She knew I'd have preferred LONE RANGER shows, or "Straight Arrow" -- I don't think I ever mentioned Clyde Beatty to her -- but they didn't have any of those. These are tapes remastered from a Smithsonian collection. *************************** Perspectives Staff this issue: Karen Litman, editor Jean Lorrah Jacqueline Lichtenberg Cheryl Wolverton *Please Note all material posted on Official Virtual Tecton is copyright by Jacqueline Lichtenberg and ALL RIGHTS ARE RESERVED. TO GET YOUR SIME~GEN(tm) MATERIAL SANCTIONED FOR WEB POSTING or TO GET PERMISSION TO REPOST FROM OFFICIAL MATERIALS EMAIL AMBROVZEOR@AOL.COM Sime~Gen (tm) is the trademark of a fictional universe © copyright by Jacqueline Lichtenberg, 1969, 1974, 1977, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1984, 1986, and Sime~Gen Inc. 1999 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:48:02 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gregory Jao wrote: > > In our discussions about places where the Tecton isn't, it sounds like we're > assuming that alternative S~G cultures exist AND ARE VIABLE in every one of > those areas. Isn't it equally likely (and required by the background of S~G) > that many (if not most) of those places w/o the Tecton have experienced > Zelerod's Doom? Exceptions would exist, but I'd expect that they'd be rarer. Yes and no - even the North America of JL's & Jean's stories have endured a thousand years (or two, or three) of repeated civilisation/Zelerod's Doom cycles. In a thousand years (or two, or three) of cultural evolution, multiple workable solutions can be found. And there's a hell of a lot of places which are difficult journeys apart but still large enough for a viable culture - in Australia alone, you have: Perth region Darwin region Alice Springs Tasmania Far Northern Queensland (Cape York) Far Northern Queensland (Cairns region) Northern Queensland (Mackay region) Assorted islands Assuming you can cross the ranges, and travel great distances, you can consider Gympie-Brisbane-Sydney-Melbourne-Adelaide to be one huge region - but note that Brisbane (Moreton Bay penal colony) was considered a secure prison for hardened convicts because 'it was too far from anywhere'. If you aren't willing to grant crossing the ranges 'easily' - and you probably shouldn't - then you have a string of places on the far side of the ranges where viable cultures could be found. Probably about eight or nine England-sized 'countries'. (England, not UK) If you're willing to grant desert survival, you suddenly wind up with an /enormous/ number of places where cultures could live and grow and be undisturbed by people who don't have that skill. Even if only one in ten, or one in a hundred, cultures come up with a tenable solution that survives only a few generations, there's enough places in the world where they might exist for everyone who comes up with one to make up a story - especially if we set it in an ambiguous timeframe. (It'd be fairly coincidental for them ALL to happen around the Zeor/Tecton era.) Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:53:19 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > I don't think anyone's come up with another possible transfer > economy (though I'd certainly like to see some suggestions). * Non-Tecton style channel's transfer. One version is seen in Householdings, other versions could well be thought up - anything from a clan structure with the channel as matriarch/patriarch, to a situation where the channel is basically a doctor, to .. well, human imagination is fairly limitless, isn't it? * A quasi-religious society which retains a limited number of Simes and sacrifices to the Simes it keeps. Just a couple of ideas. Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:37:18 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries In-Reply-To: <3739EA3F.20A77BC6@simegen.com> from "Jenn V." at May 13, 99 06:53:19 am Content-Type: text > Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > > I don't think anyone's come up with another possible transfer > > economy (though I'd certainly like to see some suggestions). > > * Non-Tecton style channel's transfer. > One version is seen in Householdings, other versions could well be thought up - > anything from a clan structure with the channel as matriarch/patriarch, to a > situation where the channel is basically a doctor, to .. well, human imagination > is fairly limitless, isn't it? Yes, but I'm analyzing things at a somewhat higher level of abstraction: these are all variants on channel's transfer. (Much like the way that U.S. and British governments are both democracies, but very definitely _not_ the same.) > * A quasi-religious society which retains a limited number of Simes and > sacrifices to the Simes it keeps. Primarily a variant on pattern (5), Simes killing Gens. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:12:34 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Lisa W Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990512201843.0109b4b0@mail.xenon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Oh I feel for elissa!!!! Oops sorry if that was misspelled. I spent several hours myself in a Gen hospital and I could feel aol the suffering around me. It didn't help to be admitted and share a room with a woman dying of metasticized lung cancer! Hugs all around! Lisa ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:16:02 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-12 10:43:49 EDT, you write: << Rifle? Or smoothbore? Even though at that time it would have had to be a matchlock or flintlock. Even though if it is an actual rifle, my hat is off to the gunsmith, that is -impressive- to be able to rifle a barell by hand. (they didn't have the tech at that time to rifle a barel by machine. (rifling is the grooves on the inside of the barel to give spin to the bullet) >> Yes, Rifle. I did a doubletake. The rifling was very deeply cut. Much more so than on modern firearms. The rifle in question was made for some nobleman or other, so was probably made by one of the finast gunsmiths of the time. I couldn't believe I was seeing a rifle that old. I had always thought something like that would have been a much more recent invention. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:30:35 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-12 10:43:49 EDT, you write: << >Although there are many other factors involved (and I can tell you more if >you are interested), a rough rule of thumb with rifles and handguns is the >longer the barrel the more accurate the firearm. Ummm... I've been shooting firearms (all three types) since I was about 5. I shoot skeet on a regular basis, and also do some handgunning. (action pistol type stuff) Actually, so people, myself included, are -more- accurate with a handgun. Mostly a matter of practice out to about 200-300 yards, once the barrel length is over about 7 1/2 inches. (and I am sure that this is far more than most of you ever wanted to know) >> Like I said, rough rule of thumb and there are many other factors. Certainly a derringer is not going to be as accurate as a longer barrelled target pistol. My own experience is with smallbore target rifle and there is not a single aspect of the design of the rifle that doesn't affect its accuracy. I wouldn't want to claim that barrel length is everything. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:42:07 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-12 12:41:20 EDT, you write: << Imagine an Aikido master level Gen dealing with Simes in combat (what I am using in Russia) ... scary. The poor Sime wouldn't have a chance. Or even more extreme, Tai Chi against Simes. Who ever said Simes were stronger than Gens. The energy flow patterns of the 'soft' styles of martial arts are absolutely -perfect- for Sime~Gen combat. (myself, I have barely messed with Tai Chi, Shotokan and Kendo ... but I do have some of the basics) >> I think the ambrov Dar Gens must do something like this. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:43:51 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello Ann, > Yes, Rifle. I did a doubletake. The rifling was very deeply cut. Much > more > so than on modern firearms. The rifle in question was made for some > nobleman > or other, so was probably made by one of the finast gunsmiths of the time. > I > couldn't believe I was seeing a rifle that old. I had always thought > something like that would have been a much more recent invention. [AMO] That is certainly impressive as all get out! Huh. I would have thought the tech would have been a bit complex, the idea though is pretty obvious to anyone familiar with how an arrow works. Like I said, rough rule of thumb and there are many other factors. Certainly a derringer is not going to be as accurate as a longer barrelled target pistol. My own experience is with smallbore target rifle and there is not a single aspect of the design of the rifle that doesn't affect its accuracy. I wouldn't want to claim that barrel length is everything. [AMO] Neither would I. Probably one of the most accurate firearms of all time has a something like a 4-5 ft (if I remember right) length barrel, the Sharps 50/140 which is killing accurate to a mile! (Black powder as well, impressive piece of workmanship) Ann Marie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:56:47 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-12 14:38:35 EDT, you write: << Simes are preserved as shamans and fed by the tribe's weaklings > > in junct transfer (presumably the remaining Simes are destroyed > > during changeover). > > Unless they survive, break loose, and come after the big guy ;) They don't, because they are held captive by overwhelming religious terror. In such societies, tribal cohesion is *everything*. Remember the oldsters dying on the ice floes... >> Maybe the only way to become the "big guy" Sime is by destroying competing Simes by stripping them of their selyn! That would kill off all of the renSimes right away. Junct channels don't live very long, so the population of shaman/Simes would never get out of hand. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:00:20 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello Ann, > << Imagine an Aikido master level Gen dealing with Simes in combat (what I > am > using in Russia) ... scary. The poor Sime wouldn't have a chance. Or even > more extreme, Tai Chi against Simes. Who ever said Simes were stronger > than > Gens. The energy flow patterns of the 'soft' styles of martial arts are > absolutely -perfect- for Sime~Gen combat. (myself, I have barely messed > with > Tai Chi, Shotokan and Kendo ... but I do have some of the basics) >> > > I think the ambrov Dar Gens must do something like this. [AMO] That is where I got it from, but far more aggressively used. For the most part the Households are -very- pacifistic, some of what I wanted to get away from, for a change of pace. Any style of martial art can be used agressively, all depending on how aggressive the person is. i.e. with the 'soft' styles, the agressor must goad their opponent into attacking, much like verbal aggression in an electronic forum ... if the defendant refuses to fight and walks away, the agressor can't do anything to them. Interesting how that segues into the relationships in S~G, a passive-agressive person in that mileu would be rather icky to try to deal with. (or more so than today) Ann ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:58:12 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I thought that the problem with having other countries not under the tecton was that in JL's space stories it shows that the tecton is still going strong, the implicaton here is that it's not only Earth wide, but has also moved out into space. Eliza ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:05:03 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > From: Ann Partridge [SMTP:Annpiccolo@AOL.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 3:57 PM > To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM > Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries > Hello again, > << Simes are preserved as shamans and fed by the tribe's weaklings > > > in junct transfer (presumably the remaining Simes are destroyed > > > during changeover). > > > > Unless they survive, break loose, and come after the big guy ;) > > They don't, because they are held captive by overwhelming religious > terror. In such societies, tribal cohesion is *everything*. > Remember the oldsters dying on the ice floes... >> > > Maybe the only way to become the "big guy" Sime is by destroying competing > Simes by stripping them of their selyn! That would kill off all of the > renSimes right away. Junct channels don't live very long, so the > population > of shaman/Simes would never get out of hand. [AMO] Wonderful idea ... I knew there was a solution to the problem in there somewhere. The only problem is that the society would not cohere for any length of time due to the enourmous selection pressure for homicidal maniacs. Ann ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:12:52 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Margaret L. Carter" Subject: NEWS: LOCUS review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My werewolf novel, SHADOW OF THE BEAST, got a good review from LOCUS! My storytelling is "competent" and "sometimes inspired." The only aspect Ed Bryant didn't like was the ending; he thought it was too abrupt and also thought the very brief epilogue didn't reveal enough of "what happens next." Guess whose idea it was to shorten the climactic sequence and replace my denouement chapter with a half-page epilogue? I am strongly tempted to point this out to the Design Image editor, with the requisite, "Nyah, nyah, so there!" (Not that there's any guarantee the reviewer would have liked my original ending better.) The first chapter can be read at http://members.aol.com/MLCVamp/wwnovel.htm. The publisher's web page is http://www.designimagegroup.com. Nice picture of the cover, which is really really cool. LL&P, Margaret Carter ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:11:01 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I never knew what homesickness was, Home is where the gen is. Eliza ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:17:30 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Perspectives Newsletter -- May 1999 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-12 16:34:04 EDT, you write: << Oh, and the name Digen -- that I made up whole cloth out of nothing at all. Just exactly like Reincarnation. I'm still waiting to find out where it is a common name! >> I have a book on my shelves called "Digenis Akritas" The Two-Blooded Border Lord." Its a Byzantine epic from around the eleventh century written in medieval Greek. Digenis is quite an epic hero. I will show you the book if you are interested. Remember, I only live a couple of miles from you, so this would be easy for me to do. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:19:54 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Firearms In-Reply-To: from "Ann Partridge" at May 12, 99 06:16:02 pm Content-Type: text > In a message dated 99-05-12 10:43:49 EDT, you write: > << Rifle? Or smoothbore? Even though at that time it would have had to be a > matchlock or flintlock. Even though if it is an actual rifle, my hat is off > to the gunsmith, that is -impressive- to be able to rifle a barell by hand. > (they didn't have the tech at that time to rifle a barel by machine. > (rifling is the grooves on the inside of the barel to give spin to the > bullet) >> > Yes, Rifle. I did a doubletake. The rifling was very deeply cut. Much more > so than on modern firearms. The rifle in question was made for some nobleman > or other, so was probably made by one of the finast gunsmiths of the time. I > couldn't believe I was seeing a rifle that old. I had always thought > something like that would have been a much more recent invention. Note that "matchlock" and "flintlock" are both ignition systems, whereas rifling is a series of spiral grooves in the barrel (so that the bullet spins, increasing accuracy): it's perfectly possible to have a rifled flintlock. The reason that rifles weren't adapted for widespread military use until after the Napoleonic Wars was that (among other reasons) they were much slower to load. A man with a musket could get off three or four shots while a rifleman got off one -- in the time it took a rifleman to reload, the other side could run up to him and fire at twenty paces or just bayonet him. Increased range on the one hand, and breechloading rifles (which load faster) finally made it feasible to drop the musket in favor of the more accurate weapon. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:19:47 -0700 Reply-To: patric@usa.net Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Patric Subject: Re: Firearms In-Reply-To: <1583828ED67FD211A31D006008277B19236D3F@mail.gammametrics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:43:51 -0700 Send reply to: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Firearms To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM HI Ann... Glad to see you diving right in! > Hello Ann, > > > Yes, Rifle. I did a doubletake. The rifling was very deeply cut. Much > > more so than on modern firearms. The rifle in question was made for > > some nobleman or other, so was probably made by one of the finast > > gunsmiths of the time. I couldn't believe I was seeing a rifle that old. > > I had always thought something like that would have been a much more > > recent invention. > [AMO] > That is certainly impressive as all get out! Huh. I would have thought the > tech would have been a bit complex, the idea though is pretty obvious to > anyone familiar with how an arrow works. For what its worth, the technique for rifling is pretty simple. (I used to build and shoot flintlocks a long time ago.) If the technology exists to cast metal, that same technology can make the rifling machine. Mechanically, its just a set of hardened cutting bits attached to a spiraled rod, like the concept of a screw only not so tightly spiraled. The rod is drawn by hand through the barrel, from breech to muzzle, and on the muzzle end, there is a block with a matching spiral cut on the inside. By drawing the rod through the block, the rod turns and the bits scrape the inside of the barrel. (think of a wine press turned on its side.) On the bit end, there is a small screw set in the center of the end. By setting the screw deeper on each pass, the bits would spread, and cut a slightly deeper channel. In those days, it took hundreds of passes to match the shallowest rifling of todays standard! Since the rod and block were made of wood, the spirals would wear away quickly and a new one would have to be made after only ten or so passes. Patric SysAdmin The Dragons Lair www.dragonslair.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:23:35 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990513091058.01118e00@mail.xenon.net> from "Eliza and Zoe" at May 13, 99 09:11:01 am Content-Type: text > > > >I never knew what homesickness was, > > Home is where the gen is. That's a Sime for you, always focused on the selyn. :) Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:26:27 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-12 18:49:25 EDT, you write: << [AMO] Neither would I. Probably one of the most accurate firearms of all time has a something like a 4-5 ft (if I remember right) length barrel, the Sharps 50/140 which is killing accurate to a mile! (Black powder as well, impressive piece of workmanship) >> Some modern target rifles (I'm not talking smallbore!) are sufficiently accurate so that 1000 meter target matches can be held. I understand that the biggest problem with that is finding a large enough range! ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:28:15 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-12 19:02:32 EDT, you write: << i.e. with the 'soft' styles, the agressor must goad their opponent into attacking, much like verbal aggression in an electronic forum ... if the defendant refuses to fight and walks away, the agressor can't do anything to them. Interesting how that segues into the relationships in S~G, a passive-agressive person in that mileu would be rather icky to try to deal with. (or more so than today) >> I just know I am going to love your story!!!! ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:30:15 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-12 19:08:14 EDT, you write: << Ann >> >From one Ann to another, I think we are kindred spirits! ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:00:57 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eliza and Zoe wrote: > > Aghhh! I don't know how Digen did it. I spent four hours at the hospital > the other day while a doctor poked and proded my Companion. The worst of it > was when he tried to insert a drip. He spent nearly five minutes fighting > to get a vein that would not collapse. While watching the actual needle go > in didn't bother me at all, it was the shear pain and frustration that > Eliza went through that got to me. > > Gen doctors seem to be able to do these procedures with such ease. Well I > guess Gens can't feel the pain they inflict. Eventually, after trying > several spots he gave up, deciding that maybe she didn't really need a drip > after all. Gee, he could have come to that discision before drilling. > > After a few tests and taking some blood, which was far less a problem than > the drip, They have decided she now needs xrays. So there will be another > trip to the hospital. Oh the places a Sime will go to follow her Gen, > especially after turnover. > > Digen, I salute you! > > Stay Safe, Stay Strong, Stay as far away from Gen hospitals as possable. > Zoe Farris. X-Rays make me pass out. Got a Cat-scan years ago that indicated that it was the product of a hyper-sensitive parietal lobe. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:13:16 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Olson, Ann Marie" wrote: > > >From Tony Z. > > >If metal is rare, then the Gens are probably using it first for > >weapons, and only secondarily for transport -- but mechanical > >transport is very heavily dependent on infrastructure: roads, > >fuel supplies, spare parts. There aren't going to be many of > >those in the border areas, since the Sime raiders will wreck them > >whenever possible to help prevent pursuits and counter-offensives. > > Actually I was thinking of the maintenece required for drawn brass cartriges > and nitro powder. Both of these were rather late. Rifles, certainly, but > with smokeless powder and self contained cartriges? That seemed to me to be > a bit of a discontinuity. The mass production machining to make self > contained cartriges is clearly 20th century, late-industrial technology, > -not- 19th, no matter how hard someone tries. > > >Also, working automotive enginees require considerably finer > >quality control and production ability than guns. You can make > >guns on a lathe; fine machining is more complicated. > > Actually it isn't the fine machining of making the gun, it is making the > ammunition. In the late 1800's most british colonial regiments equipped with the Martini-Henry rifle kept their cartridges and reloaded them by hand from little kits that they were provided with. Old bullets were rescued wherever possible and melted and recast in molds. Cartridges were recycled as many times as possible. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:46:09 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Firearms In-Reply-To: <6e706c5a.246b6823@aol.com> from "Ann Partridge" at May 12, 99 07:26:27 pm Content-Type: text > In a message dated 99-05-12 18:49:25 EDT, you write: > << [AMO] Neither would I. Probably one of the most accurate firearms of all > time has a something like a 4-5 ft (if I remember right) length barrel, the > Sharps 50/140 which is killing accurate to a mile! (Black powder as well, > impressive piece of workmanship) >> > > Some modern target rifles (I'm not talking smallbore!) are sufficiently > accurate so that 1000 meter target matches can be held. I understand that > the biggest problem with that is finding a large enough range! > Of course, except for the occasional trained sniper, the military doesn't go for that sort of rifle, since most engagements are fought at far shorter distances, and rate of fire is more important than accuracy. I'm not sure what the Gen Border Patrols will be using -- probably a mixture of weapons, since they will be doing some fairly long-range stuff (but then, if they are, the Simes are keeping their heads down, or working at night when they can zlin and Gens can't see.) I predict a fair amount of variation over time: tactics tend to see-saw back and forth as one side invents something, and then the other side comes up with a counter, and then side one invents a counter to the counter, _ad infinitam_... Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:48:27 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:58 AM 05/13/1999 +1000, Eliza wrote: >I thought that the problem with having other countries not under the tecton >was that in JL's space stories it shows that the tecton is still going >strong, the implicaton here is that it's not only Earth wide, but has also >moved out into space. Those are some of Jacqueline's very earliest stories, from the days when she assumed the World Tecton was worldwide, and that it could and would take over all of Sime~Gen culture. She has since moderated that view as the universe has grown and developed. Therefore, we should read the ships in those stories as being from places where the Tecton has survived, while by that era such places are in the minority. BTW, Eliza, I'm glad to see you on-line. Hope the trip to the hospital turned out not to reveal any serious problems. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:48:30 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: NEWS: LOCUS review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:12 PM 05/12/1999 EDT, you wrote: >My werewolf novel, SHADOW OF THE BEAST, got a good review from LOCUS! > >My storytelling is "competent" and "sometimes inspired." > > Yay! You GOT a review in LOCUS!!! That's more than Jacqueline or I have ever achieved! And then a positive one, as well--good going! Congratulations--you _deserve_ to bounce! Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:48:25 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Firearms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:00 PM 05/12/1999 -0700, Ann wrote: >> >> I think the ambrov Dar Gens must do something like this. >[AMO] >That is where I got it from, but far more aggressively used. For the most >part the Households are -very- pacifistic, some of what I wanted to get away >from, for a change of pace. Any style of martial art can be used >agressively, all depending on how aggressive the person is. > >i.e. with the 'soft' styles, the agressor must goad their opponent into >attacking, much like verbal aggression in an electronic forum ... if the >defendant refuses to fight and walks away, the agressor can't do anything to >them. Interesting how that segues into the relationships in S~G, a >passive-agressive person in that mileu would be rather icky to try to deal >with. (or more so than today) ??? Passive aggression might work against nonjunct Simes, but walking away from a junct would only mean getting killed with a common alternative grip. It works on a mailing list because the active aggressor cannot literally kick you in the teeth if you don't respond, and because the culture of a list is such that if the aggressor continues to flame while his target refuses to respond, either his aggression will be redirected as other people start flaming him (so the original target is left in peace but the list degenrates into flame wars) or, if the list has become savvy to this particular person they may _all_ refuse to respond, leaving him punching air. But without list culture passive aggression wouldn't work. Passive aggression only accomplishes its goal when it occurs within a culture that accepts it or is shamed by it. Unfortunately, our culture has gone too far in that direction--many people have adopted passive aggression as their work ethic. And as emotional blackmail, it is the backbone of many interpersonal relationships. Not so in the Sime~Gen universe. Oh, a Companion can use passive aggression against a junct by allowing a transfer and not providing any emotion--but unless that Companion is prepared to actively slam the Sime afterward, he is very likely to be strangled, or have his neck broken, or suffer some other quick and nasty death. It would have been better to actively slam the Sime unconscious and walk away in the first place. IOW, situations in which passive aggression is the best solution are actually few and far between, and the technique is almost never appropriate when you do not know the culture of the society or the personality of the individual to whom you are applying it. It can be extremely effective under a few very specific circumstances, but most of the time it just prevents anything from being accomplished at best, and results in the provocation of violence at worst. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:55:30 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Farlie Dragon Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Dancer > > X-Rays make me pass out. Got a Cat-scan years ago that indicated that it > was the product of a hyper-sensitive parietal lobe. > > D The Tecs Must have Freaked when you passed out.! I would have ! Farlie (who is TRYING to catch up on all the mail. lol) P.S. I am jumping up and down ! I just got my toys. a Epson digital camera and some ram for the puter, and a zip and a CD re write. ! YIPPIE! lol Now I can take the pictures of my doll/beanie clothes and put them on the web site. BTW do any of you in places other then North America (See I didn't forget Canada lol) collect Beanie Babies? ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 00:00:25 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Farlie Dragon Subject: Re: NEWS: LOCUS review MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Margaret L. Carter > The publisher's web page is http://www.designimagegroup.com. Nice picture of > the cover, which is really really cool. > > LL&P, > Margaret Carter Your Right. IT is a Really COOL cover !!!!! I am going to the Library and asking them to get it (If they didn't already) ! Farlie ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:25:54 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 21:48 12/05/99 -0500, you wrote: > >BTW, Eliza, I'm glad to see you on-line. Hope the trip to the hospital >turned out not to reveal any serious problems. Jean Thank you Jean, I'm back there tomorrow (should have been today but not well enough for the tests yet), and then on the 18, then the 21st and then the 31. Then I'll know I guess. Thanks for your concern. Eliza ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:26:16 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Farlie Dragon wrote: > BTW do any of you in places other then North America (See I didn't forget > Canada lol) collect Beanie Babies? *yaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnn* (IE: no. A stuffed toy is a stuffed toy is a stuffed toy, what's so special about a particular brand of them?) Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:57:15 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Collectables Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:55 12/05/99 -0400, you wrote: >BTW do any of you in places other then North America (See I didn't forget >Canada lol) collect Beanie Babies? I have an Otter named "Seaweed" that Kaas sent me. Appearently the otter is my spirit animal. Until Nefie ( http://eliza.creativeminds.eu.org/cats ) got big enough to be a threat to it Seaweed sat on top of my monitor and watched me work. Recently we saw an episode of "Third rock from the sun" (love that show!!) when Dick was obscessed with them. I can see the attraction - although not the reason for the cost of some of them! Kaas was telling me that there is a snake that was one of the originals that she was offered for $500!!!! She turned it down. Over here (Australia) we have Yowies. These are little plastic animals which come in a plastic bubble which is "hidden" inside a chocolate "Yowie". A Yowie, by the way is a mythical (well, we think it's mythical) animal which lives in the Australian outback. Just ask Zoe about collecting Yowies. Both her and my son, Garth, are into it and swap any doubles they have whenever they meet. Good luck on your collecting! How many do you have? Eliza ambrov Halwyn ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:12:45 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Convelesing Companion. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Zoe here, Well! There I was, sitting on the lounge watching TV. Eliza was tucked in bed resting. I started to feel rather hot so I put the fan on for a while. Then after about ten minutes I started to feel rather cold. I turned the fan off, but was still getting colder. I had to put a jumper on. Another few minutes go by and I'm hot again. Gee! I thought, I must be going through the change of life, and I'm only 43. After playing hot and cold for a while I hear a tiny voice from the bedroom. "ZOEEEEEEE! I have a fever." Ahhhhhh. Silly me, it wasn't the weather or change of life. It was my Companion. Now I have realised that when the time comes I will go through the change of life twice. Once when I go through it, and then again when Eliza does. Mmmmm! No one warned me about this. Other than that Eliza is feeling a bit better and now she just has to go for these tests. Oh, more trips to the Gen Hospital. This time I'll stay Hypo. Stay Safe, Stay Strong, Stay one temperature. Zoe Farris ambrov Halwyn. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:17:07 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Re: BACK: Questions re Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tony - I'm most certainly GEN. Just ask my Channel, Zoe. Eliza ambrov Halwyn COMPANION to Zoe Farris At 16:23 12/05/99 -0700, you wrote: >> > >> >I never knew what homesickness was, >> >> Home is where the gen is. > >That's a Sime for you, always focused on the selyn. > >:) > > >Tony Z > >---------- >You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >"unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >---------- > ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:52:07 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >i.e. with the 'soft' styles, the agressor must goad their opponent into > >attacking, much like verbal aggression in an electronic forum ... if the > >defendant refuses to fight and walks away, the agressor can't do anything > to > >them. Interesting how that segues into the relationships in S~G, a > >passive-agressive person in that mileu would be rather icky to try to > deal > >with. (or more so than today) > > Passive aggression might work against nonjunct Simes, but walking away > from > a junct would only mean getting killed with a common alternative grip. [AMO] Actually I was thinking of the type of S~G society where junct Gens were not -that- uncommon. > IOW, situations in which passive aggression is the best solution are > actually few and far between, and the technique is almost never > appropriate > when you do not know the culture of the society or the personality of the > individual to whom you are applying it. It can be extremely effective > under > a few very specific circumstances, but most of the time it just prevents > anything from being accomplished at best, and results in the provocation > of > violence at worst. Jean [AMO] And actually, what I was thinking of was more the societies that have realized that Gens run the show and are actually the controlling factor. You are very right though, in the traditional junct society and later the Tecton, passive-agression is rather pointless. (and quite dangerous to the Gen) I tend to forget, looking out from the little corner of the S~G world I am currently writing about, just what the attitude in the west -is- towards Gens. Sorry to set up a straw-man. Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:21:58 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Veraik Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. In-Reply-To: <373A7E98.B7EADF2A@simegen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Farlie Dragon wrote: > >> BTW do any of you in places other then North America (See I didn't forget >> Canada lol) collect Beanie Babies? > >*yaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnn* > >(IE: no. A stuffed toy is a stuffed toy is a stuffed toy, what's so special >about a particular brand of them?) If you happen to collect the RIGHT one, in the future, you may be able to sell it at an 'exorbitant' price. I agree with Kaas. $500 for the Snake is too little. (I doubt though that Kaas would ever give up her Snake. After all, it is her animal to call. Hugs, Cherri ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:50:00 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Firearms In-Reply-To: <1583828ED67FD211A31D006008277B19236D49@mail.gammametrics.com> from "Olson, Ann Marie" at May 13, 99 07:52:07 am Content-Type: text Ann Marie Olson wrote: > the books for the first time ... like it even less with the background > information I got from the list> Look at it this way: it's an improvement over "Gens are food animals" ;) Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 02:11:12 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Veraik wrote: > Jenn wrote: > >Farlie Dragon wrote: > >> BTW do any of you in places other then North America (See I didn't forget > >> Canada lol) collect Beanie Babies? > >(IE: no. A stuffed toy is a stuffed toy is a stuffed toy, what's so special > >about a particular brand of them?) > > If you happen to collect the RIGHT one, in the future, you may be able to > sell it at an 'exorbitant' price. I agree with Kaas. $500 for the Snake > is too little. (I doubt though that Kaas would ever give up her Snake. > After all, it is her animal to call. I've never understood collectibles /anyway/ - I know some people do, but other than museum-pieces (in museums!), the age/make/brand of an item is irrelevent except as a rough indicator of likely quality. But then, I've often suspected myself of not being human - many things which are utterly important to the apparent majority of humans are utterly unimportant to me. They must have left something out of my DNA. BTW: apparently I was rude & thoughtless to say what I did, or to say it the way I did, or something. If so, I apologise. (I'll probably get slapped for this apology, too. Sigh.) Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:17:11 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Veraik Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. In-Reply-To: <373AF9A0.84D22183@simegen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I've never understood collectibles /anyway/ - I know some people do, but >other than museum-pieces (in museums!), the age/make/brand of an item is >irrelevent except as a rough indicator of likely quality. > >But then, I've often suspected myself of not being human - many things >which are utterly important to the apparent majority of humans are utterly >unimportant to me. They must have left something out of my DNA. > >BTW: apparently I was rude & thoughtless to say what I did, or to say it the >way I did, or something. If so, I apologise. >(I'll probably get slapped for this apology, too. Sigh.) I think you are too hard on yourself. Everybody has likes and dislikes. Yours are as important as the next guys. Hugs Cherri ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:54:04 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Firearms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > From: Tony Zbaraschuk [SMTP:tonyz@ESKIMO.COM] > > Ann Marie Olson wrote: > > reading > > the books for the first time ... like it even less with the background > > information I got from the list> > > Look at it this way: it's an improvement over "Gens are food animals" ;) [AMO] Yes, and FMS is better than terminal Cancer. Myself, I would much rather not have either one! Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:59:06 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenn V. wrote: > I've never understood collectibles /anyway/ - I know some people do, but > other than museum-pieces (in museums!), the age/make/brand of an item is > irrelevent except as a rough indicator of likely quality. As the word "quality" indicates, you take an engineering ("What's it good for?") rather than an investment ("What will it be worth?") attitude. No offense; I do the same myself. Some people want to have The Only Instance of a class, even of something ugly and useless; who knows why. That being so, others make a living supplying them with such a thing. (In extreme cases, they buy up and destroy all other instances of the class. There is a cave in Virginia in which all the limestone growths of a certain type were destroyed by the former owner, so that he could advertise his *other* cave as unique!) -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:03:33 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Collectibles (was Sime in a Gen Hospital.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Cowan wrote: > > As the word "quality" indicates, you take an engineering ("What's it > good for?") rather than an investment ("What will it be worth?") > attitude. No offense; I do the same myself. None taken. I find artificial scarcity confusing. > Some people want to have The Only Instance of a class, even of something > ugly and useless; who knows why. Why not something like original art or craftworks? Those are naturally scarce, and (particularly the craftworks) useful. Or antiques? Also naturally scarce, not necessarily expensive... I find the industry of /making/ collectibles confusing. :) > (In extreme cases, they > buy up and destroy all other instances of the class. There is a cave > in Virginia in which all the limestone growths of a certain type > were destroyed by the former owner, so that he could advertise his > *other* cave as unique!) ARGH! Didn't he understand the VALUE of such things?! Jenn V. (ok, so I'm an engineer. At least I'm not alone...) -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:09:01 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: GOSSIP: More Gens Doing Tests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those who want to know such things: Blood tests showed me to have higher than normal (and outside the healthy range) liver chemicals in my system, thus indicating: (A) liver malfunction or (B) liver illnesses (including hepatitis in the possibilities) or (C) they took the blood sample while my liver was busy doing stuff So I'm getting more blood tests done today, duplicates of the others to rule out C, hepatitis screening tests to rule out the undesirable, and assorted other tests to try to trace A and/or B. They also did an iron count, but the doctor forgot to tell me how it went - busy telling me to have the liver tests done. So I'll ask today - see if the iron supplements I've been taking have fixed the incipent anemia. Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:37:01 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Re: GOSSIP: More Gens Doing Tests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Jenn V." wrote: >Blood tests showed me to have higher than normal (and outside the >healthy range) liver chemicals in my system, thus indicating: > (A) liver malfunction >or (B) liver illnesses (including hepatitis in the possibilities) >or (C) they took the blood sample while my liver was busy doing stuff Keep us updated. Hope it all turns outs ok. Larry Ulrey ulrey@juno.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 23:11:47 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ann - I'm not sure everyone talking about the firearms in S~G are aware of the definition of a rifle vs. a smoothebore. For those who don't, as I understand it, "rifle" comes from the practice of "rifling" the inside of the bore - putting little grooves that put a spin on the emerging thingie (bullet), which makes them much more accurate to aim. I don't remember which war it was -- it may have been the American Revolution - where most soldiers on one side had rifles and most on the other side had smoothebores. That was when the tactics started switching from marching down in company formation, weapons blazing, to the later shoot-from-hiding style. I remember hearing that the army with the old smoothebores took quite awhile and suffered hideous losses before they realized what was going on and switched their tactics, too. The next major advance as I understand it was self-contained bullets, and then multi-round capacity still later. (double barreling I'm not sure when came in -- I'm mainly talking about the six-shooters and the machine guns, and later the automatics.) Greg - >that many (if not most) of those places w/o the Tecton have experienced >Zelerod's Doom? Exceptions would exist, but I'd expect that they'd be rarer. If ZD happened and even one male and one female gen survived - or if only one survived and went somewhere else and found a mate and brought it back - in the first generation 1/3 of the children are likely to be Sime, the rest Gen. If those kids survive, same for the Gens, opposite for the Simes. The 2 survivors might have survived because they managed not to resist for some reason, in which case they might have fed their kids' minds on the wonders of that one transfer to the point where their kids wouldn't think of danger and so wouldn't resist... "Watch for falling assumptions!" _All_ unsolicited .exe files will be summarily deleted without opening. Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com www.wingedharper.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:55:20 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hmmm... Tecton not worldwide... other options for matchmates and other transfer partners... Tecton a control-freak -- sounds like a situtation ripe for a Ronaplin Curtain, or even the equivalent of the Berlin Wall. There might be a hefty smuggling industry (Hmmm - Keon might have a finger in this - they have both the ideology and the economic resources to set it up), blocade runners, a Coast Guard that keeps people in the way our Coast guard keeps aliens out... Perhaps Chanel, too... And the "Radio Free Distect-Isles" which the Tecton goes to great lengths to jam like Castro and the other Iron Curtain countries have done. There would also be censorship of every piece of mail coming into Tecton territory to make sure Great Aunt Olga didn't mention how wonderful her transfer with Uncle Asa was... It might even get to suppression of certain subjects in schools, banning of certain books from libraries - the Tecton has used fiction and other print materials to further its cause; I'd expect it to take very pro-active measures against any competing viewpoint. Hmmmm... the equivalent of the Communist Party in the '50's in the US? Secret meetings, cells with heavily-disguised leaders... blacklisting of anyone suspected, perhaps a growing protest movement with the equivalent of Pete Seeger and Phil Ochs? Kids being jailed for protests? Teens burning their Tecton Citizen Police draft cards? I'd guess the penalty for transfer-partner-running or for illegal distect-"propaganda" would be death by attrition for Simes... what would it be for Gens? Having to be near channels in need and never serve Transfer 'til they died of underdraw or of insanity at the frustration? And wouldn't that be an untenable way to treat the channel? Sounds like a bunch of great stories here! It seems that the Tecton would be fighting more of a losing battle as communication means multiplied and became more powerful. People with access to their version of the Internet would be forced to sign agreements to visist only sanctioned sites, and their surfing habits would be monitored, perhaps. "Watch for falling assumptions!" _All_ unsolicited .exe files will be summarily deleted without opening. Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com www.wingedharper.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 05:56:19 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990513171118.0095edc0@netxn.com> from "Jaye" at May 13, 99 11:11:47 pm Content-Type: text > Ann - > I'm not sure everyone talking about the firearms in S~G are aware of the definition of a rifle vs. a smoothebore. > For those who don't, as I understand it, "rifle" comes from the practice of "rifling" the inside of the bore - putting little grooves that put a spin on the emerging thingie (bullet), which makes them much more accurate to aim. I don't remember which war it was -- it may have been the American Revolution - where most soldiers on one side had rifles and most on the other side had smoothebores. That was when the tactics started switching from marching down in company formation, weapons blazing, to the later shoot-from-hiding style. I remember hearing that the army with the old smoothebores took quite awhile and suffered hideous losses before they realized what was going on and switched their tactics, too. Actually, the American Revolution saw primarily muskets on both sides, for the very good reason that muskets were a lot faster to load (a rifle bullet needs to grip the rifling grooves tightly, which in the 18th century meant that you had to hammer it down the barrel; a musket ball could just slip down.) The Americans had some riflemen, but they weren't a major element in the Continental Army -- though the British did pick up on the concept of rifle-armed infantry and used them as skirmishers during the Napoleonic Wars. It wasn't until the mid-19th century, after Minie invented a rifle bullet with a conical base (one just drops it down the barrel, like a musket ball, but the explosion of the powder then expands the bullet into the grooves) that loading rifles was as fast as loading muskets. > The next major advance as I understand it was self-contained bullets, and then multi-round capacity still later. (double barreling I'm not sure when came in -- I'm mainly talking about the six-shooters and the machine guns, and later the automatics.) Brass cartridges effectively made breechloaders possible (for reasons too long to go into here), and were a later development (post-US Civil War). Multiple-shot weapons were in development during the 19th century; a few repeating rifles in the U.S. Civil War, and the Gatling gun near the end of it, which then developed later in the century into the machine gun. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:04:09 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:55 PM 05/13/1999 -0700, Jaye wrote: >Hmmm... Tecton not worldwide... other options for matchmates and other transfer > partners... Tecton a control-freak -- sounds like a situtation ripe for a > Ronaplin Curtain, or even the equivalent of the Berlin Wall. There might be a > hefty smuggling industry (Hmmm - Keon might have a finger in this - they have > both the ideology and the economic resources to set it up), blocade runners, a > Coast Guard that keeps people in the way our Coast guard keeps aliens out... > Perhaps Chanel, too... I suppose you might get a situation like this a couple of centuries after Unity. At first, for a long time, anyone stupid enough to leave Tecton-controlled territory is simply allowed to go, because all that is known of territories outside the Tecton is that they have gone back to a state of nature, with Simes hunting Gens and Gens trying desperately to survive. > And the "Radio Free Distect-Isles" which the Tecton goes to great > lengths to jam like Castro and the other Iron Curtain countries have done. > There would also be censorship of every piece of mail coming into Tecton > territory to make sure Great Aunt Olga didn't mention how wonderful her > transfer with Uncle Asa was... It might even get to suppression of certain > subjects in schools, banning of certain books from libraries - the Tecton has > used fiction and other print materials to further its cause; I'd expect it to > take very pro-active measures against any competing viewpoint. Propaganda is one of the Tecton's most important tools. I don't think these desperation measures come in for a long time, because for at least a couple of centuries the Tecton grows as fast as it can accommodate training channels and Donors. During that time, except for the encroachment of the Distect or other rebel groups _inside_ Tecton territory, they would probably not worry very much about territories doing things in different ways--except that they would not want romanticized notions of such societies being spread through the Tecton. > Hmmmm... the equivalent of the Communist Party in the '50's in the US? > Secret meetings, cells with heavily-disguised leaders... blacklisting of anyone > suspected, perhaps a growing protest movement with the equivalent of Pete > Seeger and Phil Ochs? Kids being jailed for protests? Teens burning their > Tecton Citizen Police draft cards? That is the beginning of the end. The USSR's seventy-year history is probably about as long as a controlled society can exist with education and communication. The Feudal System only lasted for centuries because it did _not_ allow education to the populace, or information either, and communication was virtually impossible because of the state of technology. > I'd guess the penalty for transfer-partner-running or for illegal > distect-"propaganda" would be death by attrition for Simes... what would it be > for Gens? Having to be near channels in need and never serve Transfer 'til they > died of underdraw or of insanity at the frustration? And wouldn't that be an > untenable way to treat the channel? Traditionally, it's starvation for Gens. However, you have probably thought up something for worse for Donors. What the Tecton expects its channels and Donors to endure has been legendary since the earliest days of the Householdings. Do you remember after the hurricane in Ambrov Keon, when Sergi, odd-Companion-out at Carre while he waits for Risa to decide his and her fate, is assigned to sit with dying Simes to ease their last moments as they die of attrition from whatever injury prevents them from taking transfer? It's another of those utter horrors of the S~G universe that just passes by unnoticed, unless you actually think about it. Only a Companion can do it, while the empathy required to be a Companion means that the Companion suffers more than the Sime. This is a fact of S~G life. I plan to bring it up front with Zhag and Tonyo--I know some facts, but not the stories that go with them yet. > Sounds like a bunch of great stories here! > > It seems that the Tecton would be fighting more of a losing battle as > communication means multiplied and became more powerful. People with access to > their version of the Internet would be forced to sign agreements to visist only > sanctioned sites, and their surfing habits would be monitored, perhaps. And they would not be able to do it, any more than governments can today. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:13:53 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Fiction conduit anyone. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello all, I just grabbed this from the weekly electronic version of The Economist + Using Microsoft technology, SONY MUSIC will this summer start selling hit "virtual singles" on the Internet, as soon as they are available in record shops. The price is likely to be similar -- $3.49 -- and they will take around five minutes to download. Hmmmm.... wonder if this technology could be transfered to fiction sales. I don't have the time to go research the background behind this, anyone else want to give it a go? Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:25:43 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello Jean > I suppose you might get a situation like this a couple of centuries after > Unity. At first, for a long time, anyone stupid enough to leave > Tecton-controlled territory is simply allowed to go, because all that is > known of territories outside the Tecton is that they have gone back to a > state of nature, with Simes hunting Gens and Gens trying desperately to > survive. [AMO] Particulary since I would guess, many of the non-Tecton societies wouldn't -want- hordes of people coming in and overwheming them. N. America has a long standing tradition of "If you don't like it here, move!" Elsewhere this is nowhere near as prevalant. Particularly with the sort of sociological regression seen in the Sime~Gen books. Pre-industrial societies were -very- non-mobile, due to many factors; such as family size and type, can't move land, etc. > That is the beginning of the end. The USSR's seventy-year history is > probably about as long as a controlled society can exist with education > and > communication. [AMO] Another major reason for the survival of the USSR for so long was the fact that so many Russians/Slavs/Georgians etc, were so very much better off under the Soviet's than under Tzarist rule. Another mitigating factor is that Russia has never gone through a renaissance or the age of enlightenment. Under modern Russian society is -still- the old feudal structure, just with a modern structure pasted on top of it. (and not covering it up very well at the moment) > The Feudal System only lasted for centuries because it did > _not_ allow education to the populace, or information either, and > communication was virtually impossible because of the state of technology. [AMO] Very, very true. The collapse of the feudal system in western europe was -caused- by a masive dieoff in population, bringing an enourmous rise in the value of labor, and freeing the peasants from bondage to the land. Peasants could -move- to find better conditions. This was a new thing. > This is a fact of S~G life. I plan to bring it up front with Zhag and > Tonyo--I know some facts, but not the stories that go with them yet. [AMO] Waiting with baited breath. (just wanted to make sure you knew that I -really- want to hear -any- of those stories you can release) I may even manage to drag myself to NaSFic this year, just for the party and the -story-, if it is still on. > > Sounds like a bunch of great stories here! > > > > It seems that the Tecton would be fighting more of a losing > battle as > > communication means multiplied and became more powerful. People with > access to > > their version of the Internet would be forced to sign agreements to > visist > only > > sanctioned sites, and their surfing habits would be monitored, perhaps. > > And they would not be able to do it, any more than governments can today. [AMO] But it could make a very interesting conflict point. Hmmm... Net a la Gibson in S~G, black ice = giant killer Gen? Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:43:20 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello Jaye - > Ann - > I'm not sure everyone talking about the firearms in S~G are aware > of the definition of a rifle vs. a smoothebore. [AMO] Good point, I tend to forget that today, firearm technology is a bit of an occult knowledge. > For those who don't, as I understand it, "rifle" comes from the > practice of "rifling" the inside of the bore - putting little grooves that > put a spin on the emerging thingie (bullet), which makes them much more > accurate to aim. [AMO] That is exactly right. > I don't remember which war it was -- it may have been the American > Revolution - where most soldiers on one side had rifles and most on the > other side had smoothebores. [AMO] Actually, I don't remember. (I am decidedly -not- the military historian) I don't think it was the AR, my guess is actually the Civil War simply because if one person had survived a battle we would have had modern breechloaders in the early 18th century. (S.M. Stirling's Draka books start with this -one- deviation, Ferguson surviving to actually manage to get his breechloader into use) > That was when the tactics started switching from marching down in company > formation, weapons blazing, to the later shoot-from-hiding style. [AMO] That was a 20th century invention, WWI I believe. Volley fire is incredibly powerful, and was not given up until smokeless powder and extremely rapid fire, very accurate weapons became possible. Gens would probably, in any large scale combat be heavy users of volley fire, as it can wipe clean an area of enemy troops, which is exactly what they would want. Particulary as it would severely disrupt any mounted charge. > I remember hearing that the army with the old smoothebores took quite > awhile and suffered hideous losses before they realized what was going on > and switched their tactics, too. [AMO] That makes me think that yes, it was the Civil War... any military historians here? Help? (I should go home and ask is what I should do!) > The next major advance as I understand it was self-contained > bullets, [AMO] Actuall breech loaders/cartriges, then drawn brass/nitrated paper cartriges, then the modern brass cartrige. Smokeless powder came in after the modern brass cartrige. (the hoo-raw with smokeless is that after one volley with black powder, you can't see a blessed thing, smokeless also, typically has higher velocities and flatter trajectories ... not a 1 to 1 there though) > and then multi-round capacity still later. (double barreling I'm not sure > when came in [AMO] Multiple barrels were -very- early. There were still double barreled rifles into the 19th century though. > -- I'm mainly talking about the six-shooters and the machine guns, and > later the automatics.) [AMO] A machine gun -is- an automatic. And some early six-shooters were simply multibarreled. *shrug*, not that big a deal though. Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:26:01 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Leigh Kimmel Subject: Re: Fiction conduit anyone. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hello all, > >I just grabbed this from the weekly electronic version of The Economist > >+ Using Microsoft technology, SONY MUSIC will this summer start selling > hit "virtual singles" on the Internet, as soon as they are available in > record shops. The price is likely to be similar -- $3.49 -- and they > will take around five minutes to download. > >Hmmmm.... wonder if this technology could be transfered to fiction sales. I >don't have the time to go research the background behind this, anyone else >want to give it a go? > It's already being done. Alexandria Digital Literature (http://www.alexlit.com/) is selling fiction by the story to download or print out on your home computer, for about a buck a story. I have a short story there, "Claws of Vengeance." -- Can't wait until _The Phantom Menace_ hits the theaters? Relive the joy of seeing the original Star Wars trilogy by getting them on tape http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/starwarstrilogy.html Leigh Kimmel -- writer, artist and historian kimmel@globaleyes.net http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/lhkwebpage.html keeper of the Sime~Gen mailing list, simegen-l@simegen-com Ask me how to order the new Sime~Gen novel!!! "Claws of Vengeance" now available at http://www.alexlit.com/ Visit my bookstore at http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:30:43 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Leigh Kimmel Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> I'd guess the penalty for transfer-partner-running or for illegal >> distect-"propaganda" would be death by attrition for Simes... what would >>it be >> for Gens? Having to be near channels in need and never serve Transfer 'til >they >> died of underdraw or of insanity at the frustration? And wouldn't that be an >> untenable way to treat the channel? > >Traditionally, it's starvation for Gens. However, you have probably thought >up something for worse for Donors. > Somehow starvation sounds *worse* than attrition -- if they're allowed access to water (so they don't die of dehydration, which can kill in a few days), it can take well over a month for a healthy person with normal adipose-tissue reserves to die of starvation. It makes me think of the scene in S.M. Stirling's _The Stone Dogs_ where Fred and Marya see a saboteur caged to die of starvation. They thought they were seeing a skeleton until the captive moved, albeit feebly, to ward off garbage being thrown at him by passing serf children. -- Can't wait until _The Phantom Menace_ hits the theaters? Relive the joy of seeing the original Star Wars trilogy by getting them on tape http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/starwarstrilogy.html Leigh Kimmel -- writer, artist and historian kimmel@globaleyes.net http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/lhkwebpage.html keeper of the Sime~Gen mailing list, simegen-l@simegen-com Ask me how to order the new Sime~Gen novel!!! "Claws of Vengeance" now available at http://www.alexlit.com/ Visit my bookstore at http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:43:55 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Leigh Kimmel Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Particulary since I would guess, many of the non-Tecton societies wouldn't >-want- hordes of people coming in and overwheming them. N. America has a >long standing tradition of "If you don't like it here, move!" Elsewhere this >is nowhere near as prevalant. Very true -- most countries are very tradition-oriented, and resistant to change. Being a member of that society means not only having grown up there, but having ancestry there going back to the back of forever. -- Can't wait until _The Phantom Menace_ hits the theaters? Relive the joy of seeing the original Star Wars trilogy by getting them on tape http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/starwarstrilogy.html Leigh Kimmel -- writer, artist and historian kimmel@globaleyes.net http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/lhkwebpage.html keeper of the Sime~Gen mailing list, simegen-l@simegen-com Ask me how to order the new Sime~Gen novel!!! "Claws of Vengeance" now available at http://www.alexlit.com/ Visit my bookstore at http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 08:25:50 PDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Elizabeth Fitzpatrick Subject: Aura Photography, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; I was wondering---would Correlian (sp?) aka aura photography work on a Gen, or a Sime for that matter? If so, what would it look like. Also, I read an article on that in which a severed hand had what appeaered to be a phantom "arm" attatched to it. In Channel's Destiny, is this the same phenomenon at work w/ Owen's missing arm??? Also, as technology develpos in the SG universe, recording devices are re-invented. Will these record things in hypoconsciouness, do you think they will have develpoped 'camcorder's, etc, that will be capable of perceiving nagers, etc? Elizabeth _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:19:03 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990514140409.0074d1d8@msumusik.mursuky.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at May 14, 99 09:04:09 am Content-Type: text > desperation measures come in for a long time, because for at least a couple > of centuries the Tecton grows as fast as it can accommodate training > channels and Donors. During that time, except for the encroachment of the > Distect or other rebel groups _inside_ Tecton territory, they would probably > not worry very much about territories doing things in different ways--except > that they would not want romanticized notions of such societies being spread > through the Tecton. And for those first few centuries, the Tecton really is better than anything known before and doesn't have to worry -- at least until Digen's time, the Distect always seems to revert to junct-style raiding whenever it expands. Too dangerous to its own members (who get hunted down if they raid) and too hunted by Gen Territories (because of the junct-hunter stigma associated with it). > > suspected, perhaps a growing protest movement with the equivalent of Pete > > Seeger and Phil Ochs? Kids being jailed for protests? Teens burning their > > Tecton Citizen Police draft cards? > > That is the beginning of the end. The USSR's seventy-year history is > probably about as long as a controlled society can exist with education and > communication. The Feudal System only lasted for centuries because it did > _not_ allow education to the populace, or information either, and > communication was virtually impossible because of the state of technology. It _is_ possible for a despotic and more-or-less educated empire to exist for centuries: look at Rome or China or the Ottoman Empire. (Or read Wittfogel's _Oriental Despotism_ for the standard look at the situation.) If the Tecton heads down that road, it's got some real problems ahead. Russia's primary difficulty was that there was an alternative system that couldn't be subverted or defeated in the time available. If there's no viable _alternative_ system in view, the Modern Tecton could last for a very long time. (Hence the importance of having Madagascar and possibly other areas survive free of Tecton control until the space age starts and the diaspora can begin.) Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:26:51 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) In-Reply-To: <1583828ED67FD211A31D006008277B19236D51@mail.gammametrics.com> from "Olson, Ann Marie" at May 14, 99 07:25:43 am Content-Type: text > Another major reason for the survival of the USSR for so long was the fact > that so many Russians/Slavs/Georgians etc, were so very much better off > under the Soviet's than under Tzarist rule. Well, that, and Stalin killing off everyone who even looked like they might possibly ever even _think_ about wanting someone else in charge, combined with the further hideous losses in WW II, leaving Russia prostrate for a generation (something the West didn't fully appreciate at the time) and with lots of the people who could have taught their children to change things dead. > Another mitigating factor is > that Russia has never gone through a renaissance or the age of > enlightenment. Under modern Russian society is -still- the old feudal > structure, just with a modern structure pasted on top of it. (and not > covering it up very well at the moment) Yup. Stalin's Five-Year Plans managed to copy Western industrialization pretty well, but neither Stalin nor Alexander III nor Catherine the Great nor Peter the Great ever managed to get the Russians to copy the Western _mindset_, particularly the desire for innovation. (There are, of course, exceptions. This is a generalization.) > > The Feudal System only lasted for centuries because it did > > _not_ allow education to the populace, or information either, and > > communication was virtually impossible because of the state of technology. > [AMO] > Very, very true. The collapse of the feudal system in western europe was > -caused- by a masive dieoff in population, bringing an enourmous rise in the > value of labor, and freeing the peasants from bondage to the land. Peasants > could -move- to find better conditions. This was a new thing. It certainly helped... so did the education by the Church, and the geographic and political boundaries that kept things separated so any one nation could always innovate and get ahead of others -- if something choked off R&D in one country, another would profit from it. Louis XIV could suppress the Hugenots in France, but they could move to Holland or England or Germany; when the Ming Dynasty in China shut down the ocean voyages, the shipbuilders had nowhere to go that would support them. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:46:09 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) In-Reply-To: <1583828ED67FD211A31D006008277B19236D52@mail.gammametrics.com> from "Olson, Ann Marie" at May 14, 99 07:43:20 am Content-Type: text > That was a 20th century invention, WWI I believe. Volley fire is incredibly > powerful, and was not given up until smokeless powder and extremely rapid > fire, very accurate weapons became possible. Actually, it was more or less out-of-use by late in the American Civil War, as the more experienced riflemen tended to take cover wherever they could find it (their "rifle pit" is the ancestor of the modern foxhole, and the Petersburg trenches weren't too different from WW I's Western Front.) Volley fire gets a bit more complicated the common impression as per Revolutionary War movies (a good chunk is the psychological shock of a close-range volley followed by a bayonet charge, at least until weapons got accurate enough that men in mass were too vulnerable a target). But it's a long, long story that would probably be off-topic here, so I'll just recommend Brent Nosworthy's _With Musket, Cannon, and Sword_ for those who are further interested. > Gens would probably, in any > large scale combat be heavy users of volley fire, as it can wipe clean an > area of enemy troops, which is exactly what they would want. Particulary as > it would severely disrupt any mounted charge. Yup. The Gen Army can probably smash the Simes in a stand-up fight, whenever it wants to. (See: Battle of Omdurman. Courage and physical fitness do not protect one from massed modern firepower. See: Ghost Dance. Of course, you need to make sure you have the ammo available. See: Zulu Wars.) Of course, the Simes will not usually oblige the Gens with a standup fight in clear terrain. European armies did that because they wanted a decision; Simes will tend to use their advantages (speed, zlinning) by fighting a guerilla war with lots of night attacks and things. (I'm really not sure how the Sime Territories survive. Most of the Gen Army is probably on internal patrol against berserkers -- if they want to march right through the Pens, there's not a lot the Simes can do to stop them.) > > I remember hearing that the army with the old smoothebores took quite > > awhile and suffered hideous losses before they realized what was going on > > and switched their tactics, too. > [AMO] > That makes me think that yes, it was the Civil War... any military > historians here? Help? (I should go home and ask is what I should do!) Rifled muskets were a new development in the Civil War; it took a while for generals to understand that the old tactics didn't work quite as effectively. (In Europe, the change took place at about the same time: mid-19th century. Solferino in 1859, the Prussian- Austrian War of 1866, the Franco-Prussian War of 1870.) The Revolutionary War was _not_ won by riflemen from behind trees firing at redcoats in the open; it was won by musketeers trained in the European style. There's a reason that Friedrich von Steuben, drillmaster, is one of the heroes of the Revolutionary pantheon. Washington needed an army that could stand up to the British in an open fight (and so prevent them from marching where they wanted to); the primary use of the militia was local political control, but the militia tended to run away screaming when a trained British army showed up. (Morgan and Greene, who knew how to use militia, did it by asking their men "Fire three volleys. Just three. Then you can fall back" and having the militia soften up the British for their regular troops.) Once Washington had an army that could match the British, all he needed to do was camp a couple dozen miles from New York and pin the main British force in place (since Washington could beat up any detachments they sent out, and the French intervention meant that the British were sending troops to their more valuable -- to London -- Carribean islands instead of the Colonies), while the militia and Congress quashed Tory opposition locally. With French help, he eventually managed to trap one army (and Burgoyne had lost another at Saratoga basically by being an idiot, aided by not getting the expected support), and the British gave it up as being too expensive. Tony Z Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:53:12 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Fiction conduit anyone. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of sites all over the Internet attempting to sell ficiton this way and failing. This method has been around for years, each entrepreneur thinking s/he has invented it. The reason simegen.com is not using this method is that it DOESN'T WORK. There is too much free fiction available; not enough people will pay to make it worth the bother to set up a payment mechanism. See the statement on http://www.bb.com as to why BiblioBytes has gone to the give-away-free-and-include-ads method. This is the reason that the Sime~Gen books are being reprinted on BiblioBytes and not on one of the download-for-pay sites. Jean At 07:13 AM 05/14/1999 -0700, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I just grabbed this from the weekly electronic version of The Economist > >+ Using Microsoft technology, SONY MUSIC will this summer start selling > hit "virtual singles" on the Internet, as soon as they are available in > record shops. The price is likely to be similar -- $3.49 -- and they > will take around five minutes to download. > >Hmmmm.... wonder if this technology could be transfered to fiction sales. I >don't have the time to go research the background behind this, anyone else >want to give it a go? > >Ann Marie Olson >off of it!> > >---------- >You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. >To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to >LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text >"unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". >---------- > Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:10:30 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:43 AM 05/14/1999 -0700, Ann Marie wrote: >> That was when the tactics started switching from marching down in company >> formation, weapons blazing, to the later shoot-from-hiding style. >[AMO] >That was a 20th century invention, WWI I believe. Volley fire is incredibly >powerful, and was not given up until smokeless powder and extremely rapid >fire, very accurate weapons became possible. Gens would probably, in any >large scale combat be heavy users of volley fire, as it can wipe clean an >area of enemy troops, which is exactly what they would want. Particulary as >it would severely disrupt any mounted charge. I've always heard that American settlers learned what is now called guerilla warfare from the Native Americans, and that it is what allowed us to win the Revolution against the much more powerful British. Anyone know for sure? Much of "American History" is really myth and legend. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:11:17 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Aura Photography, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth Fitzpatrick wrote: > I was wondering---would Correlian (sp?) aka aura photography work on a Gen, > or a Sime for that matter? If so, what would it look like. In fact it works fine on a leaf, or a coin, or almost any other object. It has absolutely nothing to do with the object's mental state or anything else except its electrical conductivity. A pin will produce beautiful Kirlian patterns around the point. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:18:40 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Aura Photography, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:25 AM 05/14/1999 PDT, you wrote: >I was wondering---would Correlian (sp?) aka aura photography work on a Gen, Kirlian >or a Sime for that matter? If so, what would it look like. >Also, I read an article on that in which a severed hand had what appeaered >to be a phantom "arm" attatched to it. In Channel's Destiny, is this the >same phenomenon at work w/ Owen's missing arm??? Yes--the studies of Kirlian photography are where I got the idea. >Also, as technology develpos in the SG universe, recording devices are >re-invented. Will these record things in hypoconsciouness, do you think they >will have develpoped 'camcorder's, etc, that will be capable of perceiving >nagers, etc? Oh, yeah, it will come. "Someday" there will be recorded performances complete with nageric component, too. But that is later than Digen's and Mairus's day. Far too late to record the most important element of Zhag and Tonyo's performances, although _sound_ recordings exist. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:27:07 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Military history MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, > I've always heard that American settlers learned what is now called > guerilla > warfare from the Native Americans, and that it is what allowed us to win > the > Revolution against the much more powerful British. [AMO] Hmmm... not that I am doing anything but extrapolating from previous information, I would think that the greatest contribution of the Native Americans would have been for the scouts and skirmishers, contributing greatly to their ability to gather intelligence. (first rule of warfare, one can -never- have too much intelligence of the enemies operations) > Anyone know for sure? Much of "American History" is really myth and > legend. [AMO] At least as taught in the majority of schools. I was in for a very rude awakening when I joined my household and finally started learning some -real- history. Oof! Big difference between "The Civil War was fought to free the slaves." (standard U.S. public school education) and "The Civil War was fought over State's Rights." (of course my grasp on history has always been rather spotty, I have a really bad hole in my knowledge base after about the 16th century, and outside of Europe and Russia/N. Central Asia) Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:14:58 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990514181030.0075eb80@msumusik.mursuky.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at May 14, 99 01:10:30 pm Content-Type: text Jean Lorrah wrote: > I've always heard that American settlers learned what is now called guerilla > warfare from the Native Americans, and that it is what allowed us to win the > Revolution against the much more powerful British. No. What let us win the Revolution was 1) Being across 3000 miles of ocean instead of 30, like Ireland 2) Training a competent army in the European model 3) Getting assistance from France, the other major power One might note that in the conflict between European-style and Native-American style fighting, the Native Americans lost, badly, pretty much all the time, except when sheer spectacular Custer-and-Braddock-level incompetence led the Europeans. The chief constraint on American expansion was the number of people available to settle. Oh, the colonists had things to learn about wilderness fighting, but they knew a _lot_ of things -- siege warfare, gunpowder, how to turn wilderness into farmland -- that the Indians didn't have the time to learn. Bottom line: the colonists could destroy Indian settlements on a regular basis whenever they mustered the willpower to, and the Indians couldn't do the same in reverse. > Anyone know for sure? Much of "American History" is really myth and legend. The "Minuteman Myth" is pretty powerful in American history, but as I mentioned earlier, there's a _reason_ why Friedrich von Steuben is in the Revolutionary pantheon. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:25:17 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Military history In-Reply-To: <1583828ED67FD211A31D006008277B19236D54@mail.gammametrics.com> from "Olson, Ann Marie" at May 14, 99 11:27:07 am Content-Type: text > > I've always heard that American settlers learned what is now called > > guerilla > > warfare from the Native Americans, and that it is what allowed us to win > > the > > Revolution against the much more powerful British. > [AMO] > Hmmm... not that I am doing anything but extrapolating from previous > information, I would think that the greatest contribution of the Native > Americans would have been for the scouts and skirmishers, contributing > greatly to their ability to gather intelligence. (first rule of warfare, one > can -never- have too much intelligence of the enemies operations) Scouts help, but of course people like Machiavelli and Marlborough knew that too. Specific wilderness techniques, yes -- but keep in mind that a lot of American terrain was no longer wilderness, but farmland with roads through it, by 1776. Specifically, the parts that everyone was fighting over and where most of the population was. One of Burgoyne's huge mistakes before Saratoga was plunging off into the wilderness. If he'd stayed just on the river lines he'd have been much better off. > At least as taught in the majority of schools. I was in for a very rude > awakening when I joined my household and finally started learning some > -real- history. Oof! Big difference between "The Civil War was fought to > free the slaves." (standard U.S. public school education) and "The Civil War > was fought over State's Rights." Specifically, over the fear of some of the States that their right to keep slaves would shortly be abridged by the Federal Government. They did manage a fairly good spin control job afterward, but if you read the during-the-war speeches and so forth it's very very clear that slavery was THE issue driving disunion. The oft-cited economic issues boil back down to the South being a slave economy and the North not being. The North fought initially to preserve the Union, and freed the slaves as a consequence of, and means toward, restoring the Union, but there were a lot of Northerners who discovered as they went south that they really _didn't_ like slavery, and a lot of slaves who ran for the Union armies as soon as they were in range. It _became_ a war to free the slaves, though it remained also a war to restore the Union. A Union "conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal". It's not the least of Lincoln's deeds that he could re-cast the war in that light. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:10:56 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Re: Military history MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Olson, Ann Marie" wrote: >Hmmm... not that I am doing anything but extrapolating from previous >information, I would think that the greatest contribution of the Native >Americans would have been for the scouts and skirmishers, >... >wants to know if I totally am out in left field again :) > Well, it's been a long time since I've been in school, so I've forgotten a lot of history, but I believe Jean's right. As I recall, it was during the French and Indian War when some British general (I _think_ it was General Braddock) was thoroughly defeated because the Native Americans used what was guerilla tactics against the British instead of facing them in a proper European manner. If it hadn't been for George Washington of the Virginia Miltia, British losses would have been even higher. Copying these tactics against the British was a major factor in winning the Revolutionary War. At least if my memory is correct. Larry Ulrey ulrey@juno.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:24:38 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Olson, Ann Marie" wrote: >I may even >manage to drag myself to NaSFic this year, just for the party and the >-story-, if it is still on. Yes, it's still on. However, we do need local people who can bring in party supplies. So far, Cherri's offered to bring ice and Tony Z. _might_ be able to bring some supplies _if_ he's still living in the area. Otherwise, Cherri is the only other person who's volunteered so far and it could be hard for her to bring everything. We can also use other people to help with setting up and cleaning up up aftewards, setting up flyers, being on hand to help during the party, ect., but the biggest need is for people to bring supplies. If we don't have a way to get the supplies we need, it might not happen. I'm still hoping we can put this on and I know people may think it's still early, but it's really not too soon to try to make plans for it. I was going to get around to reminding people about the party before much longer, but since Ann Marie asked... Larry Ulrey ulrey@juno.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:43:18 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) In-Reply-To: <19990514.143813.-443727.1.ulrey@juno.com> from "Larry P Ulrey" at May 14, 99 02:24:38 pm Content-Type: text > > "Olson, Ann Marie" wrote: > > >I may even > >manage to drag myself to NaSFic this year, just for the party and the > >-story-, if it is still on. > > Yes, it's still on. However, we do need local people who can bring > in party supplies. So far, Cherri's offered to bring ice and Tony Z. > _might_ be able to bring some supplies _if_ he's still living in the > area. Tony Z _will_ still be living in the area, barring outbreaks of the Red Death or The Big One striking between now and then. I'll be happy to bring some stuff, but someone needs to have the room reserved and bring ice. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:53:31 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Military history In-Reply-To: <19990514.143813.-443727.0.ulrey@juno.com> from "Larry P Ulrey" at May 14, 99 02:10:56 pm Content-Type: text Larry Ulrey wrote: > "Olson, Ann Marie" wrote: > > >Hmmm... not that I am doing anything but extrapolating from previous > >information, I would think that the greatest contribution of the Native > >Americans would have been for the scouts and skirmishers, > > Well, it's been a long time since I've been in school, so I've > forgotten a lot of history, but I believe Jean's right. As I recall, it > was during the French and Indian War when some British general (I _think_ > it was General Braddock) was thoroughly defeated because the Native > Americans used what was guerilla tactics against the British instead of > facing them in a proper European manner. If it hadn't been for George > Washington of the Virginia Miltia, British losses would have been even > higher. Copying these tactics against the British was a major factor in > winning the Revolutionary War. At least if my memory is correct. Skirmishers _helped_, but the chief importance of Braddock's defeat was that it gave Washington the idea that he could do better. (Which he could.) Braddock was, even for a British general, incomptetent. (The British tend to have very good soldiers, and mostly poor generals, with some glittering exceptions like Marlborough, Wellington, and a few others. One occasionally suspects the intervention of divine providence for the preservation of Albion, though the more likely explanation is that in times of high stress talent bubbles to the top.) Braddock's defeat came about because he marched down a road through a forest without ever sending out scouts to see if an ambush was waiting. Washington managed to rally the defeated troops, and had learned a valuable lesson in the art of inflicting surprise upon an enemy. He turned out to be a good general (and an even better statesman); his chief problem through most of the war was that his troops weren't as capable as his plans needed them to be. He did make considerable use of surprise-generating attacks (Germantown, for instance, which failed when the Continental Army fell apart in the fog, but which impressed a lot of people on the Continent because he attacked shortly after a major defeat at Brandywine; Trenton and Princeton, which succeeded very well) You'll note that once he put a trained army together at Valley Force, and used it to attack the retreating British at Monmouth (an inconclusive skirmish), the British never again challenged his army in the field (though, to be fair, at least part of this was because the British government kept stripping troops from Clinton to send to the West Indies). Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:53:24 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Military history MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello Tony, Hmmm.... actually when I read this it got me to thinking of many of the things discussed by JL insofar as the backbone or structure of writing tecnique. (bet you thought I couldn't drag -this- discussion in the vicinity of the topic we are -supposed- to be talking about ) > > At least as taught in the majority of schools. I was in for a very rude > > awakening when I joined my household and finally started learning some > > -real- history. Oof! Big difference between "The Civil War was fought to > > free the slaves." (standard U.S. public school education) and "The Civil > War > > was fought over State's Rights." > > Specifically, over the fear of some of the States that their > right to keep slaves would shortly be abridged by the Federal > Government. They did manage a fairly good spin control job > afterward, but if you read the during-the-war speeches and so > forth it's very very clear that slavery was THE issue driving > disunion. The oft-cited economic issues boil back down to > the South being a slave economy and the North not being. [AMO] Ah, here is where our disagrement over the CONFLICT of the story comes in. (at least as I see it) From how I understand things to work in JL's particular style of writing, the fundamental reason for the disagreement is the CONFLICT. (the two things that can not exist at the same time) Slavery was not the CONFLICT because it was not the fundamental reason for the, ahem, Unpleasantness Between the States; the CONFLICT was that the North did not want to allow the South to continue to practise slavery because of its economic implications on the rising manufacturing sector in the North. Slavery had been practised in both the North and the South, therefore it can -not- be the CONFLICT of the story as it does not fullfill the qualifications of unique and inherently contradictory. CONFLICT: North: Wants to protect its growing industrial sector in the economy. South: Wants to maintain its advantage in the economy due to their cheap labor. (i.e. slavery) > The North fought initially to preserve the Union, and freed > the slaves as a consequence of, and means toward, restoring the Union, > but there were a lot of Northerners who discovered as they went south > that they really _didn't_ like slavery, and a lot of slaves who ran for > the Union armies as soon as they were in range. It _became_ a > war to free the slaves, though it remained also a war to restore > the Union. [AMO] Very true. The common soldier certainly wasn't fighting for economic leverage. (they never do, at least in non-mercenary units) > A Union "conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition > that all men are created equal". It's not the least of Lincoln's > deeds that he could re-cast the war in that light. [AMO] And insofar as the heart and spirit of many Americans, it makes them a lot happier citizens if they believe that the Civil War was fought for something beyond filthy lucre. (me too in my more touchy-feeley, fern-fondling moments, I just make sure -those- moments don't get out of control) Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:11:55 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Military History... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > No. What let us win the Revolution was > > 1) Being across 3000 miles of ocean instead of 30, like Ireland > 2) Training a competent army in the European model > 3) Getting assistance from France, the other major power Supply lines are always a major component in the success or failure of any military enterprise. Jenn V. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:43:12 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Re: Nasfic party. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: >> Yes, it's still on. However, we do need local people who can >bring >> in party supplies. So far, Cherri's offered to bring ice and Tony >>Z. _might_ be able to bring some supplies _if_ he's still living in >>the area. > >Tony Z _will_ still be living in the area, barring outbreaks of the >Red Death or The Big One striking between now and then. I'll be >happy to bring some stuff, but someone needs to have the room >reserved and bring ice. Good. Then that's two people who can bring supplies. Cherri can bring ice, Tony can bring some other stuff, and I _do_ have a room reserved (as long as the hotel doesn't screw up the reservation and put us on a quiet floor instead of a party floor we'll be fine). Any other volunteers? Larry Ulrey ulrey@juno.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:40:22 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Veraik Subject: Re: Nasfic party. In-Reply-To: <19990514.163421.-196983.0.ulrey@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Good. Then that's two people who can bring supplies. Cherri can >bring ice, Tony can bring some other stuff, and I _do_ have a room >reserved (as long as the hotel doesn't screw up the reservation and put >us on a quiet floor instead of a party floor we'll be fine). Any other >volunteers? I have a room reserved as well. Do you have any idea how much ice we'll need? Hugs, Cherri ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:17:55 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Nasfic Party Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yeeeeeek! Looks as if I have to write another Zhag~Tonyo story by August! Jacqueline and I have a room reserved, but on a non-party floor. We are not party animals (what's that--you've noticed?), but we do enjoy the Sime~Gen parties every year. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:22:29 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Olson, Ann Marie" Subject: Re: Nasfic Party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, > Yeeeeeek! > > Looks as if I have to write another Zhag~Tonyo story by August! [AMO] Will begging help? > Jacqueline and I have a room reserved, but on a non-party floor. We are > not > party animals (what's that--you've noticed?), but we do enjoy the Sime~Gen > parties every year. Jean [AMO] None of my household are party people either, but for a Zhag~Tonyo story -I- at least would be willing to drive up there just for that and then drive back the same night. (about a 2 hr drive from San Diego) Ann Marie <-still- thinking about those sh#$@ed bracelets!> ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:28:44 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Military History... In-Reply-To: <373C919B.74106357@simegen.com> from "Jenn V." at May 15, 99 07:11:55 am Content-Type: text Jenn V. wrote: > Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > > > No. What let us win the Revolution was > > > > 1) Being across 3000 miles of ocean instead of 30, like Ireland > > 2) Training a competent army in the European model > > 3) Getting assistance from France, the other major power > > Supply lines are always a major component in the success or failure > of any military enterprise. Yup. "Amatuers study tactics. Professionals study logistics." To try and drag this somewhere vaguely back on-topic, Norwest Territory must have had some truly amazing logisticians to bring a large chunk of their population over the Rocky Mountains and into Nivet, in ZD. (The joint Nivet-New Washington effort was much easier: they could bring boats up the Missouri and the Platte, though even that would have been a major feat without steam engines of some sort. Possibly they were already in use at that time for boats and maybe Gen Heartland railroads.) Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:30:55 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Off to France Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tomorrow morning at 9am I leave for France. No, not for the Provence Writing Workshop, which sounds like fun, but what I'm doing is going on vacation. I have been working right down to the wire on Sime~Gen Inc. and simegen.com--it has been very hard to get ready, but now I THINK I am packed and ready. I have not had a real vacation in two years--I canceled out of last year's because I had too many other commitments. I don't count conventions where I work the program or run a dealer's table as vacations. This is just two weeks off to travel around France with a couple of friends. We're going to Brittany, the area where my ancestors were Druids three thousand years ago, and Huguenots more recently, and then we're just going to wander about and see what we find. We like lakes and ancient monuments, waterfalls and museums--we're not nightlife or beach people. And I am hoping to get a much needed rest, and come home refreshed. I will be able to check e-mail from Lois's computer over the weekend, but after Monday there will be no way to contact me till I get home June 3. Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:32:03 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Nasfic party. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990514144022.0085fc10@earthlink.net> from "Veraik" at May 14, 99 02:40:22 pm Content-Type: text > > Good. Then that's two people who can bring supplies. Cherri can > >bring ice, Tony can bring some other stuff, and I _do_ have a room > >reserved (as long as the hotel doesn't screw up the reservation and put > >us on a quiet floor instead of a party floor we'll be fine). Any other > >volunteers? > > I have a room reserved as well. Do you have any idea how much ice we'll need? Kind of depends on what we're bringing. Crackers and cheese requires a bit less than _pate de foie gras_ and fresh fruit Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:43:31 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Off to France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > > Tomorrow morning at 9am I leave for France. No, not for the Provence > Writing Workshop, which sounds like fun, but what I'm doing is going on > vacation. Enjoy! JennV. -- 1.799 x 10e12 furlongs per fortnight. 'Tis a good Idea, and it doth be the Law Jenn Vesperman jenn@simegen.com http://www.simegen.com/~jenn -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com/ GCS/L/TW d- s:+ a C+++ U++++$ P++ L++$ W++ N o? K w PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R+++ tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ x+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:49:10 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Re: Aura Photography, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:25 14/05/99 PDT, you wrote: >I was wondering---would Correlian (sp?) aka aura photography work on a Gen, >or a Sime for that matter? If so, what would it look like. In one of the Role Playing Games (see http://members.aol.com/tentacled/ircgames.html ) I decided that the 1st Companion in Naros (Ruby) needed a "nager portrait" done. You can view this portrait, which now hangs (rather sadly as Ruby left) on the wall of the Sectuib's office at http://eliza.creativeminds.eu.org/art/gallery2.html . There are other simegen art pieces at that address, but if you go to the Arensti Art Gallery at http://www.simegen.com/In-T/VirtualTecton/Arensti/gallery.html there are even more, by many different artists. Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:55:17 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Military History... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:28 PM 05/14/1999 -0700, Tony wrote: >To try and drag this somewhere vaguely back on-topic, Norwest >Territory must have had some truly amazing logisticians to >bring a large chunk of their population over the Rocky >Mountains and into Nivet, in ZD. > >(The joint Nivet-New Washington effort was much easier: they >could bring boats up the Missouri and the Platte, though >even that would have been a major feat without steam engines >of some sort. Possibly they were already in use at that >time for boats and maybe Gen Heartland railroads.) I doubt that steam technology was every lost in Gen territories. It is too simple and obvious, and anything that can burn can fuel it. Sheesh! I've got to set this list to digest before I keep answering posts all evening instead of what I NEED to do! Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:04:33 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Don Jaramillo Organization: Companion-in-Underdraw Subject: Re: Nasfic party. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry P Ulrey To: Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 1:43 PM Subject: Re: Nasfic party. > Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > >> Yes, it's still on. However, we do need local people who can > >bring > >> in party supplies. So far, Cherri's offered to bring ice and Tony > >>Z. _might_ be able to bring some supplies _if_ he's still living in > >>the area. > > > >Tony Z _will_ still be living in the area, barring outbreaks of the > >Red Death or The Big One striking between now and then. I'll be > >happy to bring some stuff, but someone needs to have the room > >reserved and bring ice. > > Good. Then that's two people who can bring supplies. Cherri can > bring ice, Tony can bring some other stuff, and I _do_ have a room > reserved (as long as the hotel doesn't screw up the reservation and put > us on a quiet floor instead of a party floor we'll be fine). Any other > volunteers? > Well, I'm not local, so I won't be able to cart in supplies, but I'm looking forward to attending and helping out anyway I can. I was about to reserve my room (fingers crossed they're still readily available). Is there any actual opportunities for sharing a room and splitting the cost? I'll be a well behaved Gen. :-) Follow Your Bliss!! Don ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:09:22 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Kiri Aradia Morgan Subject: Re: Nasfic party. In-Reply-To: <039c01be9e5e$2401e150$3f898acf@intarsiacorp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 14 May 1999, Don Jaramillo wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry P Ulrey > To: > Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 1:43 PM > Subject: Re: Nasfic party. > > > Well, I'm not local, so I won't be able to cart in supplies, but I'm looking > forward to attending and helping out anyway I can. > > I was about to reserve my room (fingers crossed they're still readily > available). Is there any actual opportunities for sharing a room and > splitting the cost? I'll be a well behaved Gen. :-) > When is it? I haven't been to LA in a while, and lord and lady know I'd like to have a better experience than last time! If I go, we could always travel together... Kiri ****************************************************************************** Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God tiamat@tsoft.com "If time passes, everything turns into beauty If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away Everything starts wearing fresh colors Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:11:58 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Nasfic party. In-Reply-To: <039c01be9e5e$2401e150$3f898acf@intarsiacorp.com> from "Don Jaramillo" at May 14, 99 04:04:33 pm Content-Type: text Don wrote: > Well, I'm not local, so I won't be able to cart in supplies, but I'm looking > forward to attending and helping out anyway I can. > > I was about to reserve my room (fingers crossed they're still readily > available). Is there any actual opportunities for sharing a room and > splitting the cost? I'll be a well behaved Gen. :-) I haven't reserved one yet, but I'd be more than happy to split the cost, as long as it was on a quiet non-smoking floor. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:23:58 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Military history In-Reply-To: <1583828ED67FD211A31D006008277B19236D56@mail.gammametrics.com> from "Olson, Ann Marie" at May 14, 99 12:53:24 pm Content-Type: text > Ah, here is where our disagrement over the CONFLICT of the story comes in. > (at least as I see it) From how I understand things to work in JL's > particular style of writing, the fundamental reason for the disagreement is > the CONFLICT. (the two things that can not exist at the same time) Slavery > was not the CONFLICT because it was not the fundamental reason for the, > ahem, Unpleasantness Between the States; the CONFLICT was that the North did > not want to allow the South to continue to practise slavery because of its > economic implications on the rising manufacturing sector in the North. It's more than just the economic implications. There were serious proposals that slavery was, in fact, a better way of life than Northern laissez-faire capitalism: it was argued to be kinder and gentler to the workers, and productive of a better sort of civilization. All the economic issues (tariffs, agriculture vs. industry, capitalism vs. paternalism, westward expansion) trace back to slavery. _That_ was the ultimate conflict. > Slavery had been practised in both the North and the South, therefore it can > -not- be the CONFLICT of the story as it does not fullfill the > qualifications of unique and inherently contradictory. By this time, the Northern states had pretty much abolished slavery (except for a few along the border, the struggle for the allegiance of which was amarked factor in the first year of the war.) It was no longer among them; it was in the south, and it was the issue that the war broke out over. > CONFLICT: > North: > Wants to protect its growing industrial sector in the economy. And preserve the western lands for free citizens, not slave plantations. And didn't like the thought of Northern blacks being dragged into slavery in the South (I'm not sure if any such cases happened, but people in the North were arguing that they did.) > South: > Wants to maintain its advantage in the economy due to their cheap labor. > (i.e. slavery) And wants to preserve the lifestyle that slavery made possible, and wants to keep white supremacy over blacks. Again, the multiple conflicts go back to slavery. It's _not_ just a matter of economic advantage, though I would not deny the power of that attraction among slaveowners. (As Lincoln pointed out, it is not easy to make an impartial judgment when the choice is between sweating to earn your bread, or sitting on the porch watching someone else sweat for it.) > > A Union "conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition > > that all men are created equal". It's not the least of Lincoln's > > deeds that he could re-cast the war in that light. > [AMO] > And insofar as the heart and spirit of many Americans, it makes them a lot > happier citizens if they believe that the Civil War was fought for something > beyond filthy lucre. (me too in my more touchy-feeley, fern-fondling > moments, I just make sure -those- moments don't get out of control) Economics is not the be-all and end-all root cause of history. Many humans, including those in high places, are willing to change things, suffer disadvantage, and die, for ideas and concepts. The North was fighting for the Union; the South for the right to own slaves. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 19:44:02 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: "Rebecca A. Drayer" Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. In-Reply-To: <37398243.7ED50F08@locke.ccil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 12 May 1999, John Cowan wrote: > Eliza and Zoe wrote: > > > Aghhh! I don't know how Digen did it. I spent four hours at the hospital > > the other day while a doctor poked and proded my Companion. The worst of it > > was when he tried to insert a drip. > > Moral: Never get your veins poked by a doctor: they are typically > the *worst* (from lack of practice). Demand a professional phlebotomist. It's so true!! I've seen phlebotomists succeed where tired, sleep deprived interns fail. (And as the tired, sleep deprived intern in question, I am extremely greatful for them!) > > > Stay Safe, Stay Strong, Stay as far away from Gen hospitals as possable. > > Hospitals are not fit places to be sick in. Especially in July, when all the house staff change over (not into Simes, though). :-) I guess now's as good a time as any for me to delurk. I've been a fan of Sime/Gen for several years, ever since I found HoZ in my local library. A few months later I found UZF, and I was hooked. (BTW, has anyone else explored the Lankh/medical experimentation storyline? I always thought it might make a neat story to have a gen doctor oppose Lankh and seek help from Simes like Digen, even though the very sight of Simes is terrifying.) Anyway, I've been on the list for almost 8 months, but have been too busy to do more than lurk. Nice to meet everyone! Peace, Rebecca ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:54:58 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Aura Photography, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirlian. Correlian is the registry of the Millenium Falcon. The Correlians also make those Star Destroyers for the Empire. D Elizabeth Fitzpatrick wrote: > > I was wondering---would Correlian (sp?) aka aura photography work on a Gen, > or a Sime for that matter? If so, what would it look like. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:40:35 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jill Einsmann Subject: Re: Off to France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/14/99 6:31:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, a21711f@MSUMUSIK.MURSUKY.EDU writes: << I will be able to check e-mail from Lois's computer over the weekend, but after Monday there will be no way to contact me till I get home June 3. Jean >> Jean Enjoy the vacation! Jill Einsmann (paganwooki@aol.com) ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:48:42 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Sime in a Gen Hospital. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:44 PM 05/14/1999 -0400, you wrote: >I guess now's as good a time as any for me to delurk. > >I've been a fan of Sime/Gen for several years, ever since I found HoZ in >my local library. A few months later I found UZF, and I was hooked. >(BTW, has anyone else explored the Lankh/medical experimentation >storyline? I always thought it might make a neat story to have a gen >doctor oppose Lankh and seek help from Simes like Digen, even though the >very sight of Simes is terrifying.) > >Anyway, I've been on the list for almost 8 months, but have been too busy >to do more than lurk. Nice to meet everyone! Hi, Rebecca--welcome! Jean Contents of this e-mail are my opinion unless otherwise attributed. Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu. ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail May 17-June 3, 1999*** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:52:15 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Cherri Munoz Subject: Re: Off to France In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990514223055.0074bbf8@msumusik.mursuky.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Have a restful and wonderful time Jean. You deserve it. Hugs, Cherri ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:13:01 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-14 10:49:13 EDT, you write: << the hoo-raw with smokeless is that after one volley with black powder, you can't see a blessed thing, >> I am not a black powder shooter, but I hear that it is very rough on the barrel and that cleaning it is a constant and messy job. Is this true? ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:23:15 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann Partridge wrote: > > In a message dated 99-05-14 10:49:13 EDT, you write: > > << the hoo-raw with smokeless is that after one volley with > black powder, you can't see a blessed thing, >> > > I am not a black powder shooter, but I hear that it is very rough on the > barrel and that cleaning it is a constant and messy job. Is this true? Oh, yeah. All sorts of particulate crud winds up in the barrel. At best, it negatively impacts muzzle-velocity and accuracy, while drastically increasing the heat-stress on the barrel. At worst, heat-stress and sub-ignition of the crud can shatter or warp your barrel, or ignite your powder while you are reloading. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:47:39 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: Off to France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-14 18:31:26 EDT, you write: << I will be able to check e-mail from Lois's computer over the weekend, but after Monday there will be no way to contact me till I get home June 3. Jean >> Have a safe and wonderful trip. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 19:50:52 -0700 Reply-To: patric@usa.net Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Patric Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:13:01 EDT Send reply to: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM > In a message dated 99-05-14 10:49:13 EDT, you write: > > << the hoo-raw with smokeless is that after one volley with > black powder, you can't see a blessed thing, >> > > I am not a black powder shooter, but I hear that it is very rough on the > barrel and that cleaning it is a constant and messy job. Is this true? Yup. Its messy, but it cleans with the equivalent of soap and water so thats not so bad. Stains white fabric something fierce though. We used to do exhibitions and such, including naval battle recreations. I used to think cleaning the .54 was a drag until I had to clean the cannons... They had a 2 inch bore. Yeep! By the way, the process of "browning the barrel", the precursor to "bluing" was likely developed as a result of someon not cleaning his gun very well. (So the story goes). The process is a form of controled rust, after all. (Now you know WAY more than you wanted, I am sure.) Patric > > ---------- > You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. > To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to > LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text > "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". > ---------- > SysAdmin The Dragons Lair www.dragonslair.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:07:16 -0700 Reply-To: patric@usa.net Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Patric Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) In-Reply-To: <373CDA93.9510603F@zeor.simegen.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:23:15 +1000 Send reply to: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) To: SIMEGEN-L@SIMEGEN.COM > Ann Partridge wrote: > > > > In a message dated 99-05-14 10:49:13 EDT, you write: > > > > << the hoo-raw with smokeless is that after one volley with > > black powder, you can't see a blessed thing, >> > > > > I am not a black powder shooter, but I hear that it is very rough on the > > barrel and that cleaning it is a constant and messy job. Is this true? > > Oh, yeah. All sorts of particulate crud winds up in the barrel. At best, > it negatively impacts muzzle-velocity and accuracy, while drastically > increasing the heat-stress on the barrel. At worst, heat-stress and > sub-ignition of the crud can shatter or warp your barrel, or ignite your > powder while you are reloading. > Due mostly to the fact that the ball doesnt seat firmly against the powder. Probably best to leave out the details of emergency barrel cooling/cleaning when there was no water to be had, and you are just plain out of spit. :) The usual procedure is to run a wet patch down the barrel every three or four shots, and maybe six to eight for a battle type situation. Everyone carried a few patches in their mouth to make and keep them wet. Using a wet patch every so often allowed them to get far more shots out than usual before the inevitable cleaning. Patric SysAdmin The Dragons Lair www.dragonslair.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 23:26:02 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: Off to France MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/14/99 3:31:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, a21711f@MSUMUSIK.MURSUKY.EDU writes: << I will be able to check e-mail from Lois's computer over the weekend, but after Monday there will be no way to contact me till I get home June 3. Jean >> Don't work! Enjoy! (So that's where you were going...how wonderful!) hugs, wendy ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:36:23 -0700 Reply-To: Don Jaramillo Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Don Jaramillo Subject: Re: Nasfic party. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm looking at the NASFiC hotel page. They negotiated a NICE contract with the Marriot! Sleeping Rooms Single (1 person, 1 bed), double (2 people, 1 bed), double double (2 people, 2 beds), triple (3 people 2 beds), and quad (4 people, 2 beds) rooms are available at special convention rates ($99 single/double/triple/quad). Rollaway beds are available complimentary from the hotel up to the number they have in inventory (we suggest you reserve a rollaway bed in the "Special requests or keyword" section when reserving your room). Each room has individual climate controls, remote-control cable TV with free and pay movies, AM/FM radio, two telephones, voice mail system, and an in-room safe. Here's another thing we may consider: Special Blocking For people who wish to have their rooms close to one another (i.e. blocked together), the procedure is easy. First, decide on a key word - either a single person's name or a group name. Next, complete a housing form for each room you want to reserve and in the "Special request or keyword" area in the type of room section, write "please block with [keyword]". Important: while all of the rooms in your block need not be reserved at the same time, each room must be reserved separately. Has anyone done this yet? Do we have a Sime~Gen name set up? Follow Your Bliss!! Don ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:37:54 -0700 Reply-To: Don Jaramillo Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Don Jaramillo Subject: Re: Nasfic Party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Lorrah To: Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 3:17 PM Subject: Nasfic Party > Yeeeeeek! > > Looks as if I have to write another Zhag~Tonyo story by August! > > Jacqueline and I have a room reserved, but on a non-party floor. We are not > party animals (what's that--you've noticed?), but we do enjoy the Sime~Gen > parties every year. Jean > What are the Sime~Gen parties like? Are they sedate friends or raucous tear-down-the-walls affairs? Follow Your Bliss!! Don ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 10:28:17 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jill Einsmann Subject: Re: mouse problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/12/99 12:08:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, farlie.dragon@CWIX.COM writes: << I don't have any cats (I wish I did tho) and my mouse STILL goes off the cliff. I, too think mine thinks it's a lemming. Either that or It's mad that we play games without it. Farlie >> Farlie The mouse feels unwanted?? That could be a freudian slip=) Jill ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:59:37 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Kiri Aradia Morgan Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) In-Reply-To: <199905141619.JAA01068@eskimo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 14 May 1999, Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > It _is_ possible for a despotic and more-or-less educated empire > to exist for centuries: look at Rome or China or the Ottoman Empire. > (Or read Wittfogel's _Oriental Despotism_ for the standard look at > the situation.) If the Tecton heads down that road, it's got some > real problems ahead. > > Russia's primary difficulty was that there was an alternative system > that couldn't be subverted or defeated in the time available. If > there's no viable _alternative_ system in view, the Modern Tecton > could last for a very long time. > > (Hence the importance of having Madagascar and possibly other areas > survive free of Tecton control until the space age starts and the > diaspora can begin.) > Yes... but the system of government that will arise from Yamagata's reconquest and Tashiro Kenzo's Shogunate is not going to NOT be an Empire. You can expect Japan to resist Tectonization just as hard as it resisted Christianization. There are a lot of people in Japan who attend the occasional Christian service, celebrate Christmas Eve with a romantic date, get married in Christian style because they like the white dresses, and treat Christian religious ideas as a side dish to a syncretistic meal of Shinto and Buddhism, and Christian religious symbols are constantly misused in manga because they look cool. But there are very few Japanese Christians. (And most of the ones I've met are kinda fanatical, like the people that yell at you when you visit shrines on New Year's Day.) Similarly, I think people would eventually reach a point where they'd be glad to have channel's transfer available, say, in hospitals or temples, where needed, but because of the arigatami and intimacy involved, would insist on having their transfer mates, their lortuens and orhuens and torluens. I've been rethinking this slightly with the analogy to sex, because since I broke up with Go, I've kinda had some sharp reminders that while the culture is based in arigatami, it's not a particularly monogamous culture. The current emphasis on monogamy is traceable to Western/Christian influence during the Meiji era. I am wondering how this would affect transfer partnerships that aren't locked dependencies. Because intimacy is the highest value in intimate relationships, even though the family must be preserved at all costs (confucianism) a lot of people have a lot of affairs... I'm still working on it... I'm just working really hard on lots of other things, too. ^_- And perhaps I think too much about it and should just sit down and WRITE the damn thing! ^_^ Kouji and Rika and Yamagata will probably tell me what I want to know if I just let them. BTW, Ann Marie, we should talk. One of my charas is a Russian foundling (he remembers nothing, though, of how his dead parents got 'cross the water, they died when he was very small)... and our people are bound to run into each other before they do the Tecton. Kiri ****************************************************************************** Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God tiamat@tsoft.com "If time passes, everything turns into beauty If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away Everything starts wearing fresh colors Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:10:45 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 11 May 1999 to 12 May 1999 (#1999-131) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-15 13:00:14 EDT, you write: << arigatami >> What is arigatami? ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:54:47 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Hobbies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sime~Gen Cross Stitch I know that Allison does cross stitch and that so does Colleen. I found a little program which will take my artwork and make it into X stitch patterns, complete with DCM colour codes for the cotton. At the moment, seeing I am new to this, I'm doing "Samplers" I believe that they are called. Soon our walls will be decorated with such classic sayings as "Home is where the Gen is" and "A Sime in Need is a Friend indeed". One of the problems with X Stitch is Zoe.... She sits next to me on the lounge and twitches every time I prick my finger (which is a lot!). I can't tell if she is enjoying it or not, but I fear that she is. If anyone is interested in getting a copy of the X Stitch program (it's shareware) please email me off the list at ladye@gothic.net.au Colleen, I haven't forgotten your patterns either, and I promise I'll get around to it soon :) Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:58:52 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Off Topic, Vampire Bat Joke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A young vampire bat came flapping in from the night, covered in fresh blood and perched himself on the roof of the cave to get some sleep. Before long, all the other bats smelled the blood and began hassling him about where he got it. He was tired and needing a rest, so he told them to please leave him alone. However, it was clear that he wasn't going to get any sleep until he satisfied their curiosity. "OK!" he said with exasperation, "follow me," and he flew out of the cave with hundreds of bats following close behind him. Down through the valley they went, across the river and into the deep forest. Finally he slowed down and all the other bats excitedly gathered around him. "Do you see that tree over there?" he asked. "Yes, yes, yes!" the bats all screamed in a frenzy. "Good," said the first bat, "Because I DIDN'T!" ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:04:47 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Sime~Gen Joke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A Sime was walking along a deserted beach one day when he came across a very unusually shapped bottle. He picked it up and opened it to see what was inside. Instantly a pale gold mist started to pour out of the bottle, and coalesce into the shape of a giant Gen-ie. "I have been imprisoned in that bottle for two hundred years" intoned the giant Gen-ie in a deep bass voice, "And as you have freed me from my rather cramped prison I will grant you one wish." The Sime thought hard and long, and finally said "You know, what I could really do with is a good ending to this joke." ************************************** I'll say "sorry" now, and save time!!! ************************************** Eliza ambrov Halwyn Who can only stand not telling jokes for so long before she finally cracks. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 18:16:03 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Marie Olson Subject: Eating Disorders? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I have been having a discussion of various things with Ann (piccolo) off list and this came up ... One thing I was thinking of as much of my current story deals with insanity and mental health is that I would guess that some Simes when faced with inadequate transfers would develop other eating disorders than anorexia, such as -overeating-. (basically eating, not because of hunger, but to try to fulfill what they are not getting from a Gen) I don't think it would fly in canon, but it makes sense to me. That and a fat Sime would die very, very young due to the damage it would do to a body not designed for it. This would only hold true after the resurgence of large scale food production in-T, since before that time, there would be enourmous social pressure on Simes to not eat. (that and junct Simes are a whole different critter than non-junct insofar as emotional fulfillment with acquisition of selyn) Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 12:00:21 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Re: Eating Disorders? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:16 15/05/99 -0700, you wrote: >One thing I was thinking of as much of my current story deals with >insanity and mental health is that I would guess that some Simes when >faced with inadequate transfers would develop other eating disorders than >anorexia, such as -overeating-. (basically eating, not because of hunger, >but to try to fulfill what they are not getting from a Gen) Probibly not, as a sime in need doesn't eat much at all. The less selyn they were getting, the less they would eat, would be my guess. Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:37:26 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 14 May 1999 to 15 May 1999 (#1999-134) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jean - >Traditionally, it's starvation for Gens. However, you have probably thought >up something for worse for Donors. I didn't know that! (the starvation thing) But I can just see a dedicated donor dying in underdraw 3' from a channel... >hurricane in Ambrov Keon, when Sergi, odd-Companion-out at Carre while he >waits for Risa to decide his and her fate, is assigned to sit with dying Simes I remember that... but the first time I read AK I dind't have enough information to realize what that did to Sergi! Nuances of this universe continue to hit me right between the eyes (often with help from you, Jacqueline, or one of hte other list mmebers.) >This is a fact of S~G life. I plan to bring it up front with Zhag and >Tonyo--I know some facts, but not the stories that go with them yet. Would you please, please PLEASE tell the 2 of them to start talking more???? I want to read this! (dying of attrition for want of stories!) >Actually, I don't remember. (I am decidedly -not- the military historian) I LOL - me either! Almost all the history I know comes from historical novels - from Gwen Bristow to Leon Uris. I detest history as taught in schools, but I find that understanding it as shown in biographies and novels helps. but as a result, my timeline is somewhat sketchy, to say the least! (I'm trying today to remember whether the New Madrid quake was 1600 or 1799... ARG!) (we felt the quake from Bishop yesterday morning, tho we're over 200 miles from the epicenter.) But there's a story about Sequioah saying he was going to go home and stomp his foot and the earth would throw the Euros off the continent... and the quake happened about the time he would have got home.) >That makes me think that yes, it was the Civil War... any military >historians here? Help? (I should go home and ask is what I should do!) I think I remember the revolver being important in the CW... And it "won the west" of course. Darn this lack of timeline! :/ >Multiple barrels were -very- early. There were still double barreled rifles >into the 19th century though. How popular were db rifles as opposed to db shotguns? Anyone have an idea? >A machine gun -is- an automatic. And some early six-shooters were simply A machine gun is hard to wear on the hip and fast-draw, tho. You're right, tho - I was being too general without thinking about it. When I think automatic I think handguns and the NRA. Leigh Starvation (from personal experience) isn't all that bad. The first couple weeks is hell and then the interest in food often wanes. The hell is if you have to be DOING anything, becasue there's just not much strength. (I'm not talking about anorexia nervosa here - I had surgery and wasn't able to eat solids for 3 months and got to where I was too nauseated to "eat" stuff like mashed potatoes, and I lost about 1/5 of my body weight before I managed to get corrective surgery). Jean Wish I knew more -- my Revolutionary War history basically comes from Disney's Swamp Fox and a couple novels! There's a book... something like Lies My Teacher told Me. All KINDS of fascinating Shudder! Things like we don't learn about Helen Keller as an adult because she was a Communist or Socialist! Can't have the little darlings know things like that! On Nasfic - I still plan to go tho I don't know how I'm going to get the $ together. (And I'm scared my puter is going to need still more expensive work in the next week or 2 - it's not reading the Jaz or any of the CD's and we've tried everything we can think of.) I'd like to help cleaning up or setting up, but with the fibro, I never know if I'm doing to be able to do anything. Sometimes it's all I can do to sit in a chair and look like I'm present; other times I do pretty well. Cherri - is the offer of a place to sleep still good? If it is, I can at least manage to bring some fritos or brownies or pop or juice if I can swing the membership fee. Question- can people get into the S-G party without purchasing membership? I'm pretty sure I can get down there for a day... the fee is another question. Jean - >Looks as if I have to write another Zhag~Tonyo story by August! Yup, yup, yup! >Jacqueline and I have a room reserved, but on a non-party floor. We are not >party animals (what's that--you've noticed?), but we do enjoy the Sime~Gen >parties every year. Jean Sounds smart to me! Jean - France! Have FUN, okay? You deserve it! "Watch for falling assumptions!" _All_ unsolicited .exe files will be summarily deleted without opening. Jaye orchestra@wingedharper.com www.wingedharper.com ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:45:41 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 14 May 1999 to 15 May 1999 (#1999-134) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990516065042.00935ba0@netxn.com> from "Jaye" at May 16, 99 07:37:26 am Content-Type: text Jaye wrote: > >Actually, I don't remember. (I am decidedly -not- the military historian) I > LOL - me either! Almost all the history I know comes from >historical novels - from Gwen Bristow to Leon Uris. I detest history >as taught in schools, but I find that understanding it as shown in >biographies and novels helps. but as a result, my timeline is somewhat >sketchy, to say the least! There are good history books out there; it's just that most of them never seem to make it into the textbook market. (Most history _textbooks_ are chiefly useful as kindling -- don't the people who write them ever ask the question "Would I, personally, or a member of my family, read this book for pleasure?" If the answer is "no", they ought to start over from scratch. I admit, though, that trying to cover all the important stuff in a particular period is difficult.) If you find a copy, Page Smith's _A People's History of America_ (8 volumes) is probably the best recent general history of the U.S., but as I said, it's 8 volumes (and that only goes up to the post-WWI era.) But it _is_ possible to write interesting and exciting history books. If you ever see a copy of Macaulay's _History of England_, grab it immediately and read. >(I'm trying today to remember whether the New Madrid quake was 1600 or >1977... ARG!) Winter of 1811-1812, actually; there were three major shocks. > Wish I knew more -- my Revolutionary War history basically > comes from Disney's Swamp Fox and a couple novels! The problem with novels is that they oversimplify to make a good story. (This is, probably, necessary -- and we do remember stories better than many other forms of information.) A good novel is better than a bad history book, especially if you're dealing with a person's life. But it's a lot harder to write a novel about, say, the wild and wonderful adventures of sanitation engineering (a.k.a. the provision of water and sewers), a development which was probably more important than almost anything else in the 19th century in terms of saving lives. (Though Ibsen doesn't do a bad job in _An Enemy of the People.) Some things work well in novelization; some less so. A good historical novelist will take care to preserve the spirit of the age, and get the facts right -- but the first requirement is to tell a story. And usually it's the story of a person, rather than an idea or a technique or a system. Tony Z ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:37:30 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jill Einsmann Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/12/99 1:38:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tonyz@ESKIMO.COM writes: << Myself, I would say that many of the 'primitive' cultures would survive > quite nicely. I don't really see that much difference between the > Shaman/Magician archetype and a Sime. Plus the fact that many of those > cultures have traditions of sacrifice to appease the Shaman/Magician. > *shrug* YMMV certainly, but this is just my 2 cents. The problem is the _numbers_. ONE Sime in a tribe of 50 people will kill the entire tribe in a little under four years, which is not enough time for them to breed replacements. And with one out of three Gen/Gen births being Sime, you've got a lot more than that to deal with. I can see a society evolving where one Sime dwells in an area as "Big Man" and kills off all the other local Simes, taking the local criminals as his kills and protecting the rest of the community. I suspect such a society would rapidly become unstable and collapse (either into Zelerod's Doom, if the Sime tries to get a few more Simes so he can have companionship, or into a Gen revolt that gets rid of the Sime , if the Gens get tired of getting killed). But it might last, or rise up again, in some areas. >> the Orient could revert back to a samurai type situation with few Simes(up to 6) as Samaurai overlords of a small Gen population (ie rural Japan) and whole new styles of martial arts could be adapted to sime and gen physiology. It may not last long, however it could be interesting .. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 16:23:59 EDT Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Partridge Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 14 May 1999 to 15 May 1999 (#1999-134) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-16 11:46:16 EDT, you write: << But it's a lot harder to write a novel about, say, the wild and wonderful adventures of sanitation engineering (a.k.a. the provision of water and sewers), a development which was probably more important than almost anything else in the 19th century in terms of saving lives. >> Maybe if you were writing about a Gen sanitation engineer and berserker Simes were lurking in the sewers! ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 17:21:35 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Jean Lorrah Subject: TECH: PaintMaster Bargain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" All of you who do art, websites, photo greeting cards, desktop publishing, I just got a great bargain at Staples here in Philadelphia. I'm with the people I will go to France with, leaving tomorrow--but we went shopping today. If you have a Staples nearby, check out PaintMaster Premier Version 4.0 for $29.99 this week, with a $30.00 rebate! An excellent paint program that handles scanning and fiddling with photos, 200 TrueType fonts, 70,000 graphics, and 10,000 photos. All public domain (no copyrights--use as you please). A program to play with cartoons. Other stuff too. All for the cost of tax and two first class stamps for claiming the rebate. It's this week's special, so if you can use it and have a Staples, this is a very useful program. Jean ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 17:53:56 -0500 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Leigh Kimmel Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 14 May 1999 to 15 May 1999 (#1999-134) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (I'm trying today to remember whether the New Madrid quake was 1600 or 1799... ARG!) 1811 and 1812. Three major shocks and a number of smaller ones. -- Can't wait until _The Phantom Menace_ hits the theaters? Relive the joy of seeing the original Star Wars trilogy by getting them on tape http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/starwarstrilogy.html Leigh Kimmel -- writer, artist and historian kimmel@globaleyes.net http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/lhkwebpage.html keeper of the Sime~Gen mailing list, simegen-l@simegen-com Ask me how to order the new Sime~Gen novel!!! "Claws of Vengeance" now available at http://www.alexlit.com/ Visit my bookstore at http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/bookstore/ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:03:46 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Dancer Subject: Re: Eating Disorders? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eliza and Zoe wrote: > > At 18:16 15/05/99 -0700, you wrote: > >One thing I was thinking of as much of my current story deals with > >insanity and mental health is that I would guess that some Simes when > >faced with inadequate transfers would develop other eating disorders than > >anorexia, such as -overeating-. (basically eating, not because of hunger, > >but to try to fulfill what they are not getting from a Gen) > > Probibly not, as a sime in need doesn't eat much at all. The less selyn > they were getting, the less they would eat, would be my guess. I can make a case for it. Think about it this way. A young sime up until changeover is used to eating. Okay. They changeover, and there is some sort of problem getting Selyn (physiological, psychological, donor matchup, or whatever). Psychologically, the young sime may not be out of the habit of eating (although I am assuming that the new hormones act to suppress the physical appetite, perhaps they don't function evenly from sime to sime. That would be in line with real-world hormone production and behaviour) So, at a critical and formative time, the young sime eats when (for whatever reason) transfer is unsatisfactory or unavailable. It would not be unreasonable for this behaviour to persist as a neurosis, or reflexive urge in similar situations later on in life. D ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:55:35 -0400 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Cynthia Tenen Subject: Re: Military History Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Re the Civil War -- I'm with Tony (I think). There's a wonderful book called "Arguing About Slavery: John Quincy Adams and the Great Battle in the United States Congress," by William Lee Miller. There was stuff going on, leading to the American Civil War, that we tend to completely overlook in our cynical age. In addition to all the economic factors (which were very real) there was a tremendous religious revival movement going on in the U.S during the 1830's and 1840's which had a very real effect on setting this nation on the path to Civil War -- in great part by tying up the business of congress for many years in a battle over what's called the "right to petition,"(i.e., the right of any citizen to petition Congress, about anything, and get a hearing) which was (originally) supposed to be without restriction. But petitions regarding the abolishment of slavery, submitted by organized groups of religiously-motivated abolitionists, began to become the focus of contention in the House, which led to a battle over the right to petition itself, which was a very serious issue in those days. The lines of conflict were first drawn in Congress over this issue. --The book I mention is an excellently well-written and researched history that reminds us of many aspects of this society we've forgotten: people, even whole communities, passionately staked their lives on their religious visions; the "doings" of congress, as published by the Congressional newspapers of record, were followed avidly by the literate population. BTW, one thing I learned from this book: prior to the Civil War, there were only two Presidents of the United States who had not, at some point in their lives, been slaveholders: John Adams, and John Quincy Adams -- both irascibly independent Puritans from Massachusetts. -ct Anyway, I highly recommend this book. ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:00:27 +1000 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Eliza and Zoe Subject: Fan Fiction, was Eating Disorders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:03 17/05/99 +1000, you wrote: >I can make a case for it. Think about it this way. A young sime up until >changeover is used to eating. By all means go ahead and write the story. Fiction is writen about what is strange and unusual, not about the everyday and drab. However, if we are talking about Sime physiology, that is a different story. Selyn isn't a replacement for food and need isn't hunger for food. (for example, if you weren't getting enough oxygen you wouldn't eat more to make up for that lack. You wouldn't associate the two feelings at all). Simes in need can only think about one thing (sort of like males around a certain age I guess :) and it aint food. Of course, as it's all fiction anyway there really isn't a branch of science called Sime physiology and it's just what JL and Jean says it is. Who is doing the editing of Fan Fiction now? Still Karen? From what I understood she was too busy lately doing the editing of the on line fiction. Need any help Karen? Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:23:00 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Kiri Aradia Morgan Subject: Re: Non-Tecton Countries In-Reply-To: <912b72b3.24706a6a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 16 May 1999, Jill Einsmann wrote: > the Orient could revert back to a samurai type situation with few Simes(up to > 6) as Samaurai overlords of a small Gen population (ie rural Japan) and whole > new styles of martial arts could be adapted to sime and gen physiology. > It may not last long, however it could be interesting .. > Shhhh... it ain't *quite* like that... mata ne kiri PS: the Samurai era was only a small part of the sum total of Japanese history prior to the current era.... ****************************************************************************** Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God tiamat@tsoft.com "If time passes, everything turns into beauty If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away Everything starts wearing fresh colors Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:52:20 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Kiri Aradia Morgan Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 14 May 1999 to 15 May 1999 (#1999-134) In-Reply-To: <199905161545.IAA19721@eskimo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 16 May 1999, Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > There are good history books out there; it's just that most of them > never seem to make it into the textbook market. (Most history > _textbooks_ are chiefly useful as kindling -- don't the people > who write them ever ask the question "Would I, personally, or a > member of my family, read this book for pleasure?" If the > answer is "no", they ought to start over from scratch. I admit, > though, that trying to cover all the important stuff in a particular > period is difficult.) > This is because clear writing that is a pleasure to read is heavily penalized in academic history courses above the undergraduate level. I have an MA in history and was consistently downgraded by several of my professors because my style was too "journalistic" and not "academic" enough. In other words, because my friends (whom I allowed sometimes to critique my papers) could read my work. And actually liked it. Kiri ****************************************************************************** Kiri Aradia Morgan 93! Thou Art God tiamat@tsoft.com "If time passes, everything turns into beauty If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away Everything starts wearing fresh colors Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic Desire is embraced in a dream..." -- X-JAPAN ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 21:05:46 -0800 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 12 May 1999 to 13 May 1999 (#1999-132) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Yup. The Gen Army can probably smash the Simes in a stand-up fight, >whenever it wants to. >(I'm really not sure how the Sime Territories survive. Most of the >Gen Army is probably on internal patrol against berserkers -- if >they want to march right through the Pens, there's not a lot the >Simes can do to stop them.) The huge difference between any war fought by Ancients and the pre-Tecton situation between Sime and Gen Territories is that neither Territory was trying to "win" the war--in fact, both were better off if neither side gained a decisive victory. The Simes are best off if the Gen Territories are able to wipe out their berserkers, and whatever unorganized bands of unliscenced Raiders are wreaking havoc in the area on both sides of the border. Their army will fight off organized Gen invasions, if they happen to be in the area (otherwise the locals do the job), but they wouldn't normally try to seek out and defeat detachments of the Gen Army. The Gens want to stop Simes from killing their citizens. Capturing Sime Territory isn't important to them; they have enough land, and if a border is nearby, new Simes will leave instead of staying and becoming dangerous menaces. Most of the time, the Gen Army would be going after home-grown berserkers or Raiders. All of which are trying to capture healthy Gens for kill or sale, not gain military victories. The battle in HOZ was not between two armies; it was between an army and group of well-organized Raiders. And Runzi's people grabbed all the Gens they could harvest, then left without following through on their victory. Mary Lou ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 05:53:42 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Marie Olson Subject: Re: Eating Disorders? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Eliza, Probibly not, as a sime in need doesn't eat much at all. The less selyn they were getting, the less they would eat, would be my guess. Actually I was thinking sufficient selyn, just insufficient emotional satisfaction, resulting in transferrance of desire to food. (due to their not really understanding what they are lacking in their lives) Not that the Sime in question would have any appetite, in most eating disorders the person in question doesn't. (particularly regarding neurotic over-eating) Ann Marie Olson ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV@SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 05:54:04 -0700 Reply-To: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" Sender: "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" From: Ann Marie Olson Subject: Re: Civil War: Re Causes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tony, Ann mentioned the discussion that you and she were having, and asked if I would care to add anything. At least I think she asked me, I was to busy looking at the smoke rising from her match-lock pistol to do more than say SURE, NO PROBLEM!!! One of the problems with discussing the beginning of the War of the Northern Aggression, is that many people get locked into the notion that there was a single primary cause that forced the war to happen. In my opinion that would be like saying that the Crusades occurred because the Holy Lands needed saving. State's Rights, Slavery, Western expansion, the differing methods that the North and South handled the lack of cheap labor for farms or factories are all part of the Causes of the war. Cheap Labor: Both sides had a problem with the lack of bodies to do work. The South coped by breeding their slaves, and introduced machines such as the cotton gin to make the most of what they had. The American South was unusual since by the 1850's most of the slaves were domestically produced. Other regions of the Western Hemisphere were still bringing slaves in from Africa at this time, In fact some of the "southern" slaves had actually been bought from the North as the northern states went free. The North moved more rapidly into the industrial age as steam power took the place of men in the factories. The North had an advantage in so far as many of the immigrants from Europe settled in the northern states.( As an aside, anyone who thinks that whites weren't slaves, has never looked at the lives of miners and doesn't understand the concept of the "Company Store".) Taking the first three causes I mentioned as a group; the Federal Gov. was making laws interfering with the functions of the States. Telling a State or Territory whether or not it could have slaves, controlling or influencing elections, returning or not returning property, i.e. Dred Scott. This all may seem to be linked with the slave issue, But what lies under the cover. Politics! By election day in 1860, Congress was divided into Northern and Southern camps. As new territories were to be added the most important question was were they free or slave? (that is to say, North or South.) Now why was this so important? In the House of Representatives the northern faction was strong. The larger population of the North almost guaranteed that. The South had it's power in the Senate. Why? There were more Slave or Border States than Free. It was control of the Senate that made the Free or Slave question so important. Slavery had a major part in starting the war, and I think that the many people involved in trying to stop it are to be admired. However, the North was not willing to shed blood for the sake of it.