========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:58:53 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: BACK: Re: Request for Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gossamer wrote: > > Larity - The major division. > Has to do with selyn production/usage. There are Gens > (selyn-producers), Simes (selyn-users) and Children (those who > haven't yet established). Correct > Sime Forms - > Simes can be either RenSimes ("ordinary" ones - those who only have > a primary selyn system) and Channels (who have both primary and > secondary systems, the secondary one has selyn it can then pass on > to other RenSimes in need). > > Channels are rated third order (slowest/lowest selyn needs) to > first order (highest). Correct. RenSimes are also rated - RN3 to RN1 (lowest to highest). In a channel, the rating measures not only selyn needs, but capacity to work - a QN1 (first order channel) can take many more donations per day than a QN3, can serve more renSimes, and can do a greater number of the 'extras' a channel does, like healing. A QN1 is also more likely to be able to do the really tricky jobs that happen in the books. :) > Gen Forms - > Most gens are just "ordinary" ones who as far as I can tell don't > have any spcial term like the RenSimes do. "Ordinary" gens can > donate selyn via channels only, using the channels' secondary > system. There are also Donors (able to donate selyn to a RenSime > without harm) and Companions (able to donate selyn to a Channel for > their own use, ie to the Channel's primary system). > > An "ordinary" Gen's selyn donation capacity (I think, not sure > -exactly- what it measures) is rated GN3 to GN2 (stands for General > donor?). > > Companions are rated TN3 to TN3 (Technical Donor?). Technical Donor, yes. And in both cases the ratings are from 3 to 1, same order as for Sime ratings. GN3, GN2, GN1. TN3, TN2, TN1. A GN is only rated for selyn production, a TN is rated for selyn production AND for the other things - like a channel is. A TN3 can steady a channel through basic operations and basic situations. A TN1 is expected to be able to steady a channel in the middle of an angry mob. > Mutations - > There are two known and named mutations in the known SG Universe, > Farrises and Tigues. I don't understand this very much but in > -general- I get the feeling that Farrises are > faster/higher-capacity with regard to Selyn production/transfer > than usual but also rather more fragile (ie tend towards illness > allergies). Tigues are the opposite, the "plodders" who aren't so > fancy but are very dependable. Farrises and Tigues have very similar capacities and abilities. A Farris is more sensitive and highly-strung than a Tigue, and performs like a Diva with first-night nerves. The Farris gets the job done, and gets the job done -perfectly-, then collapses in the dressing room with his manager (read: Companion/Donor) and needs pampering. The Tigue is more like the first violinist. Handles first night by going there, performing perfectly, taking the bow on behalf of the orchestra, and going home to spend a quiet evening with her spouse (read: Companion/Donor). You NOTICE the Farris, but you'd seriously miss the Tigue if she vanished. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:01:59 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Cowan wrote: > > > JL's most recent challenge in the so-called "Gay Channel Controversy" was: > > If no Gay Channels, then no Straight what? > > And I say, if no female calico cats, then no male what? > > (Well, *nothing*, actually. Nature is under no obligation to be symmetrical.) No male torties. :) Jenn V. (I can't spell tortoiseshell today. Maybe I can.) -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:05:33 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sandra Gray Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:47 01/31/1998 +73900, you wrote: >> JL's most recent challenge in the so-called "Gay Channel Controversy" was: >> If no Gay Channels, then no Straight what? > >And I say, if no female calico cats, then no male what? Shouldn't that read "if no male calico cats, then no male what?" since as far as I've ever known *all* calico cats are female. > >(Well, *nothing*, actually. Nature is under no obligation to be symmetrical.) This statement is true, imo. > >-- >John Cowan cowan@ccil.org > e'osai ko sarji la lojban. > > Sandra sandragray@rica.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:18:53 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sandra Gray Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:05 02/01/1998 -0600, I wrote: >Shouldn't that read "if no male calico cats, then no male what?" >since as far as I've ever known *all* calico cats are female. Ooops, that should have read "if no male calico cats, then no female what?" Sandra sandragray@rica.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:33:38 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tracy D Reeber Subject: Re: Out-territory Householdings A question for a story I'm gestating: in Digen's time, are there any Householdings located, in toto or in part, in Gen territory? If a community of Gens in a remote setting wanted to either establish a Household or join an existing one, what would it take? Or is this the sort of question I should float via a writer's workshop? Tracy _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:26:47 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >And I say, if no female calico cats, then no male what? Actually, calico (otherwise known as tortie or tortie and white, depanding on the cat) is the female-related sex-linked characteristic. (I have one lying on my chest even as I write and about half her sisters are also calico). The male sex-linked color is orange or orange-and-white. (Half my cats brothers are orange or orange and white - it's a large family, since the wild mother escaped all efforts to trap and spay for over a decade) "Male" (actually XYY but they have male genitalia) calicos are possible but they are always sterile. Female oranges are possible, tho I've lost sight of the genetic mechanism (mabye Jacqueline would help out here. I only got a BS in biology and it was years ago.), and the female oranges are sterile, too, so I'm thinking maybe it's an XXY, tho I'm not sure and don't have data available at the moment on it. Jaye "Old Friends, they mean much more to me than new frieneds Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. Harry Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:06:12 -0500 Reply-To: lpola@edutech.org Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Leo M. Pola" Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jaye wrote: > > >And I say, if no female calico cats, then no male what? > Actually, calico (otherwise known as tortie or tortie and white, depanding > on the cat) is the female-related sex-linked characteristic. (I have one > lying on my chest even as I write and about half her sisters are also > calico). The male sex-linked color is orange or orange-and-white. (Half my > cats brothers are orange or orange and white - it's a large family, since > the wild mother escaped all efforts to trap and spay for over a decade) > "Male" (actually XYY but they have male genitalia) calicos are possible but > they are always sterile. Female oranges are possible, tho I've lost sight > of the genetic mechanism (mabye Jacqueline would help out here. I only got > a BS in biology and it was years ago.), and the female oranges are sterile, > too, so I'm thinking maybe it's an XXY, tho I'm not sure and don't have > data available at the moment on it. > > Jaye > > "Old Friends, they mean much more to me than new frieneds > Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. > Harry Chapin sorry, the orange gene is a semi-dominant gene carried on the x chromosome. a male calico would have to be XxY where X=the Orange gene, x=the non-orange and the Y is of course the Y chromosome, which has no matching allele. female calicos are Xx, female orange (normally called red or ginger) are XX. all other colour female cats are xx. Mario - who has been lurking for awhile ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:53:59 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: The Gen "Killroom" story and the Chronology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:40 PM 2/1/98 +1100, Jenn wrote: >Congratulate me, folks, I've been published! > >First time I've been published... > >WHEEEEE!!!!! Congratulations, Jenn! Folks--if you are well read in the S~G universe, Jenn's story is for you. If you haven't read much yet, read the other fiction first, so that you come to this piece steeped in the history of the universe. No, it's not a technical story at all--it's a pure entertainment piece. It's not even that hard to understand, but for the full impact you should at least have read _First Channel_ and _Ambrov Keon_. If you haven't read the material set in the early periods and developed an emotional reaction to it, while you may easily figure out what is happening, it won't affect you the way it should. I'm not going to give anything more away, as I don't want to spoil the story for anyone. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:54:01 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Request for Info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:47 PM 2/1/98 +1100, Jenn wrote: >Tracy D Reeber wrote: > >> ME TOO! I've read all the books, except Zelerod's Doom (any suggestions >> on where to find a copy, to buy or borrow?), > >Ask JL or Jean, they both have copies of most of the books. We have copies of _all_ the books, but they are our personal and professional copies, which we cannot sell or give away because then we, the authors, would have no copies. >JL has - or had, when I bought them - everything but Channel's Destiny, >though House of Zeor was only available in fannovel form. Jacqueline and I ran out of the paperback copies we purchased for resale years ago. Occasionally we have a copy that has turned up in a used book store. Whenever anyone finds such books now, the first thing they do is post to the list--no reason today to have them go to Jacqueline or me and THEN to the person looking for them. But either of us will purchase used copies if no one on the list is looking for those particular books at that time--someone will come along looking for them eventually. >Jean has - or had - Channel's Destiny, and may well have others. All I have are a few hardcover CD. >Both of them are quite willing to swap books for a bit of storage space and >some cash. :) Whoa! If we sell our personal copies, WE, the authors won't have any! Please, Jenn, don't give newbies the impression that Jacqueline and I have boxes of everything overflowing our storage space! We each have one or two copies of each book except for the aforementioned CDs. We cannot sell or give away irreplaceable books, or lend them to the vagaries of the mail services. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:54:03 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: BACK: Re: Request for Info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was too tired to deal with this last night. >Gossamer wrote: >> > >> Larity - The major division. >> Has to do with selyn production/usage. There are Gens >> (selyn-producers), Simes (selyn-users) and Children (those who >> haven't yet established). Established or changed over. >> Gen Forms - >> Most gens are just "ordinary" ones who as far as I can tell don't >> have any spcial term like the RenSimes do. "Ordinary" gens can >> donate selyn via channels only, using the channels' secondary >> system. There are also Donors (able to donate selyn to a RenSime >> without harm) and Companions (able to donate selyn to a Channel for >> their own use, ie to the Channel's primary system). Donor is the Tecton's term for a Companion. Only in Gulf Territory, and only for a limited time after Unity, were Gens matched with renSimes. Such Gens probably were _not_ referred to as Donors, to avoid confusion in the Tecton paperwork that had to be handled even in Gulf. The Tecton in the other Territories was adamant that renSimes not have direct transfer, even though that meant more kills at the Secret Pens (note the junct attitude toward Gen deaths) and the truncating of the lives of those juncts (note the junct "so they burn out young--so what?" attitude). After the events of _To Outlaw Love_ (unwritten, 20-25 years after Unity) the Tecton cracks down on Gulf and forces everyone to conform to their rule. Donor is an impersonalizing term, that goes along with the rotation of Donors to channels. The Tecton is paranoid over the idea of dependence on self-aware Gens. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:54:06 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Out-territory Householdings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:33 AM 2/1/98 -0800, Tracy wrote: >A question for a story I'm gestating: in Digen's time, are there any >Householdings located, in toto or in part, in Gen territory? If a >community of Gens in a remote setting wanted to either establish a >Household or join an existing one, what would it take? Good question, Tracy. We know that Rior has gone underground, but so far as I can remember, nothing else is established concerning the possibility of other Gen Territory householdings. Check with Jacqueline--if you need a Gen Territory householding, you can probably invent one. It would be uncomfortable for Simes to live there, though, as in that time period every time a Sime stepped off the householding grounds s/he would have to wear retainers. OTOH, a big ranch out in a remote area could work--just as in Sime Territories the local Simes learn to depend on the householdings first as medical clinics and later as shelters for their wrong-larity children, the same process could well occur with Gens out in the wild. Think of ranchers lost in a blizzard--there are local Simes in that householding who could find them in time to save their lives if the sheriff will agree to lift the retainer laws temporarily. >Or is this the sort of question I should float via a writer's workshop? This is a general-interest question that I think many people on the list will enjoy discussing. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:59:16 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Request for Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > Whoa! If we sell our personal copies, WE, the authors won't have any! > > Please, Jenn, don't give newbies the impression that Jacqueline and I have > boxes of everything overflowing our storage space! We each have one or two > copies of each book except for the aforementioned CDs. We cannot sell or > give away irreplaceable books, or lend them to the vagaries of the mail > services. Jean MEEP! Sorry! At the time I asked, I was sold nice-new copies of the books.. Ok. Um. I goofed? I promise not to do it again? Is that any help? Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:30:12 EST Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << > JL's most recent challenge in the so-called "Gay Channel Controversy" was: > If no Gay Channels, then no Straight what? And I say, if no female calico cats, then no male what? (Well, *nothing*, actually. Nature is under no obligation to be symmetrical.) -- >> But what is identified as a male calico cat, is one with two colors -- such as gray and white. The _TRUE_ male calico cat is very rare, and has the same tri-color markings as the female. These true calico male cats are almost always sterile. My information source: "Cat Fancy" Magazine. Karen Litman (owner of a dilute calico female -- gray, cream and white ---- and a gray and white male cat [among others; all spayed or neutered]) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:20:25 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Fwd: Strayla Centre on Yahoo net events -- [ From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg * EMC.Ver #3.0 ] -- Folks: Jenn has succeeded in one more thing with more to come: She has Strayla Centre Chat listed on Yahoo as follows: I hope enough of us are monitoring the Strayla Centre Chat that people who drop in will find someone there most of the time. http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn/chat/index. html (you need Java enabled on your browser, and then when you arrive at the page, very shortly thereafter the chat room just appears on your screen -- you sign in by going /nick and putting your own name or initials or whatever. Then you'll see if anyone else is there. Strayla Centre on Yahoo net events On page http://events.yahoo. com/est5edt/Arts_and_Entertainment/Science_Fiction__Fantasy__and_Horror/ Strayla Centre Chat - Java Chat - chat group frequented by the fans of Sime~Gen, a fictional universe created by Jacqueline Lichtenberg. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second book in the series has been turned in. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring and find out how to get the next Sime~Gen novel! On The Zeor Visitor's at http://www.j51.com/~zeor click on Directory. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks. com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve or surf the Virtual Tecton starting at Tecton Central http://www.best.com/~shadorat/sg/sgfr.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:23:42 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tracy D Reeber Subject: Re: Out-territory Householdings Tracy wrote: > If a >>community of Gens in a remote setting wanted to either establish a >>Household or join an existing one, what would it take? Jean Lorrah wrote: >OTOH, a big ranch out in a remote area could work--just as in Sime >Territories the local Simes learn to depend on the householdings first >as >medical clinics and later as shelters for their wrong-larity children, >the >same process could well occur with Gens out in the wild. Think of >ranchers >lost in a blizzard--there are local Simes in that householding who >could >find them in time to save their lives if the sheriff will agree to >lift the >retainer laws temporarily. That is along the lines I was thinking - a ranch (or actually a mess of ranches run by related Gens) up in the Rockies, pretty remote from the nearest proper town. Most of their ancestors originally came from a sime territory on the other side of a now-inaccessible pass, & settled where they did because they didn't fit in down in the Gen community. They are pro-unity, and before the pass was blocked used to put their changeover kids on a horse bound for the other side & hope.... Now they have asked for a Sime Center, but their population density is too small and the Tecton won't do it. So they have the uneviable choice of keeping their teenagers & SOMEONE dying when one changes over, or sending them down to the nearest community & losing them as they form ties down there & don't come back. They are too far to get help for a changeover victim. In the story I'm envisioning, they end up doing a REALLY big favor for a Household channel, whose Household decides that they will do something about this. I haven't decided what yet - bring pressure to bear on the Tecton to get them a center? adopt them as a part of the Householding? something radical that I haven't thought of yet? In any case the Tecton is going to feel unfairly criticised & fussy & have all sorts of objections.... I wasn't sure tho if there were precedents to take into account. Info & suggestions welcome! - Tracy _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:08:52 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tracy D Reeber Subject: Re: Out-territory Householdings >> If a community of Gens in a remote setting wanted to either establish a >>Household or join an existing one, what would it take? >Jean Lorrah wrote: >Good question, Tracy. We know that Rior has gone underground, but so >far as >I can remember, nothing else is established concerning the possibility >of >other Gen Territory householdings. Check with Jacqueline--if you need >a Gen >Territory householding, you can probably invent one. >OTOH, a big ranch out in a remote area could work--just as in Sime >Territories the local Simes learn to depend on the householdings first >as >medical clinics and later as shelters for their wrong-larity children, >the >same process could well occur with Gens out in the wild. Think of >ranchers >lost in a blizzard--there are local Simes in that householding who >could >find them in time to save their lives if the sheriff will agree to >lift the >retainer laws temporarily. That is kind of the lines I was thinking about; a remote ranch (or rather a set of ranches of related people) in a remote area of the Rockies. They border a Sime territory, but it is on the other side of a now-inaccessible pass. Many of their ancestors originally escaped from ST when they established, and chose to remain in the mountains rather than join the larger Gen community "downhill". At the time of the story, there IS a Sime Center in the nearest Gen town, but it's too far to get help for a kid in changeover, or to donate regularly. Their own community is small, so the Tecton isn't willing to set up a Center just for them. That leaves them with the rotten choice of losing SOMEONE on a regular basis due to changeovers - either the new sime, or an adult gen- or of sending their changeover age kids to some kind of boarding arrangement down in the valley. Most of those kids end up lost to the community, as they form ties in the valley - a familiar story. As I am currently envisioning this, they end up doing a very big favor for a Household channel, whose House decides to respond by helping them find a solution. I'm not sure yet whether that solution will be bringing pressure on the Tecton to get them a Center, helping set up a Household, or bringing their community in as a branch of their Household so to speak. In any case, Tecton beauracracy is going to feel unfairly criticized! I wasn't sure if there were any precedents already established that I should take into account. Tracy _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:29:32 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: Request for Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Please, Jenn, don't give newbies the impression that Jacqueline and I have > boxes of everything overflowing our storage space! We each have one or two > copies of each book except for the aforementioned CDs. We cannot sell or > give away irreplaceable books, or lend them to the vagaries of the mail > services. Jean > I don't think anyone would ask you ladies to do that. I count myself lucky to have been able to find all the SimeGen books. Ambrov Keon was the hardest to find. It was an accident at all that I found House of Zeor. My mom had worked for a rehab center and a donation of sci-fi books had been dropped off at her house by mistake. When I came home, there was a box of "treasure" on the front porch. I mean, ask a "kid" to avoid SCI-FI BOOKS? Hardly. :). So I found House of Zeor in the box along with a bunch of other books, and eventually read it. And loved it. Jacqueline wrote that novel very smartly. She seemed to instinctively know what emotional 'tones' to set and set them, to keep a reader engrossed from page 1 to the last page. The book was one of those few, "You can't put it down till it's done" types. Believe me, I'm EXTREMELY picky about books. Nowadays at least a third of the books I buy I either don't finish and get rid of them or do finish painfully anbd then get rid of them. In the old days there were a lot fewer sci-fi writers, but the content was MUCH better. So House of Zeor was definately a 'keeper' and a 're-reader'. :) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:31:14 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: The Gen "Killroom" story and the Chronology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where can this story be purchased? What publishing house carries it? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:16:30 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sylvia Engdahl Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980201012645.006979b4@netxn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Jaye wrote: > >And I say, if no female calico cats, then no male what? > Actually, calico (otherwise known as tortie or tortie and white, depanding > on the cat) is the female-related sex-linked characteristic. (I have one > lying on my chest even as I write and about half her sisters are also > calico). The male sex-linked color is orange or orange-and-white. (Half my > cats brothers are orange or orange and white - it's a large family, since > the wild mother escaped all efforts to trap and spay for over a decade) > "Male" (actually XYY but they have male genitalia) calicos are possible but > they are always sterile. Female oranges are possible, tho I've lost sight > of the genetic mechanism (mabye Jacqueline would help out here. I only got > a BS in biology and it was years ago.), and the female oranges are sterile, > too, so I'm thinking maybe it's an XXY, tho I'm not sure and don't have > data available at the moment on it. Female oranges aren't sterile. I used to have a male orange whose mother was orange--I saw her when I selected him from her litter. I now have a female orange who has been spayed, which the vet considered necessary. Although they are far less common than male oranges, they aren't nearly as rare as the "male" calicos. ________________________________________________________________________ Sylvia Engdahl - Eugene, Oregon Visit my Website! sengdahl@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~sengdahl ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:21:31 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: Request for Info -- [ From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg * EMC.Ver #3.0 ] -- Jean I think answered Tracy: I would appreciate seeing the same list of > >channel variations as Elizabeth. > > So far there are only Farrises and Tigues. > Actually, there's also Andrea Alton's MERRYWEATHERS -- who are Donors and Channels by and large. See ICY NAGER. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second book in the series has been turned in. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring and find out how to get the next Sime~Gen novel! On The Zeor Visitor's at http://www.j51.com/~zeor click on Directory. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks. com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve or surf the Virtual Tecton starting at Tecton Central http://www.best.com/~shadorat/sg/sgfr.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:21:56 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: buried message Comments: To: "Jory M. Earl" -- [ From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg * EMC.Ver #3.0 ] -- Jory mentioned one of my favorite old projects: > What is cleaner you ask? Ocean Thermal. You pump water from deep to the > surface and out again. This generates a charge and is very efficient. What > pollution? Well, cold water. Not bad at all. Bottom plankton..Ahh, good , the > fish get a feast! > > This idea was tested in the 1930's and was quite successful. God only knows > why the government didn't start building them. Pump bottom-water with what energy? BTW by "dirty" I didn't necessarily mean NO3 pollution. And not necessarily from burning hydrocarbon fuels. There just isn't (even today) anymore oil close enough to the surface to retrieve without sophisticated tools and LOTS of energy. One of the reasons oil is expensive is that it costs almost as much energy to LIFT it out of the earth as one can get FROM it, gallon for gallon. And hydroelectric is not EASY to build -- it takes a very huge underlying (and polluting) industrial base to build a Coolie Dam project. It's very sophisticated, and takes large amounts of people cooperating. Simes just don't do that in large numbers. Broadcast power isn't feasible today -- takes a huge underlying industrial base. There's just too much we take for granted today -- too much you're not aware of that is required to produce even the simplest tooth brush. When the S~G world rebuilds this industrial base form scratch it will do so in TWO distinct and very different ways, neither of which resemble what we Ancients have done -- for reasons having to do with the two variant psychologies and requirements of Simes and Gens. Large numbers of Simes just don't work together in close quarters, especially not confined close quarters. They get on each others' nerves, and it's a long, long time into Unity before such large numbers of Simes would work under the field-control of channels. Large numbers of Gens do work well together -- and they could build a Coolie Dam project if the Simes would help them out with the technology. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second book in the series has been turned in. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring and find out how to get the next Sime~Gen novel! On The Zeor Visitor's at http://www.j51.com/~zeor click on Directory. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks. com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve or surf the Virtual Tecton starting at Tecton Central http://www.best.com/~shadorat/sg/sgfr.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:26:28 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: GOSSIP: S~G fan gone professional -- [ From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg * EMC.Ver #3.0 ] -- > Jacqueline Lichtenberg wrote: > > > Oh, do get this posted to the List -- but I havent a clue what WoD is -- > > explain to the List too. Some of us don't know everything. (EXAMPLE; WoD > > is a Model of the Universe element that I'm missing, not a datum. It's > > context not content.) > > > > I don't know if anyone's told you yet, but Gwyn has leave of absence > > > from the RPG project - she'd had a chance to write a WoD novel & > > > actually be paid for it. > > > > > > I'm not sure at this stage whether it's a definate 'yes, write it & > > > we'll pay you' or an 'apply & send us a sample of your work', but > > > whichever it is, Gwynnie is busy with it. > > Ok. WoD.. World of Darkness... > A modern-urban-horror setting primarily for role-playing in, but also has a > fair few published novels set in that world. > > It's managed by White Wolf - a company which I think is run out of Seattle . > > > Jenn V. JL here again -- White Wolf? I had some contact with them a few years ago - - know some people who know some people. Had to do with the Vampire tv series about the Clans -- can't recall the name right now. Anyway, I THOUGHT White Wolf was going bankrupt. Do they still publish? Forgive my ignorance -- it's not part of the field I keep up with. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second book in the series has been turned in. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring and find out how to get the next Sime~Gen novel! On The Zeor Visitor's at http://www.j51.com/~zeor click on Directory. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks. com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve or surf the Virtual Tecton starting at Tecton Central http://www.best.com/~shadorat/sg/sgfr.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:21:20 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye Subject: off topic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is not on Sime/Gen topic, but since a lot of crossover exists between the S~G universe and Darkover, I thought I'd ask anyway. How is "N'ha" pronounced, as in Jaelle N'ha Mellora? Jaye "Old Friends, they mean much more to me than new frieneds Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. Harry Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:11:17 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Re: Orange cats Comments: To: lpola@edutech.org MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 1-FEB-1998 09:18:56.2 lpola said to AERDEN lp>Jaye wrote: lp>> lp>> >And I say, if no female calico cats, then no male what? lp>> Actually, calico (otherwise known as tortie or tortie and lp>white, depan ding lp>> on the cat) is the female-related sex-linked characteristic. (I have lp>one > lying on my chest even as I write and about half her sisters are lp>also > calico). The male sex-linked color is orange or lp>orange-and-white. Are these orange cats the ones that look so much like Henry VIII? They're BIG and furry and orange and purr contentedly, as if they rule the world. (g) Maybe I just have a wild imagination, but Henry VIII is who I think of whenever I see one of those cats. Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:50:01 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: The Gen "Killroom" story and the Chronology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit J-Man wrote: > > Where can this story be purchased? What publishing house carries it? I *WISH*! It's on the CZ site - http://www.geocities.com/~rmgiroux/CZ/ Jenn V. Hm. Wonder if I can charge a shareware fee? -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:00:21 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Out-territory Householdings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:23 PM 2/1/98 -0800, Tracy wrote: >That is along the lines I was thinking - a ranch (or actually a mess of >ranches run by related Gens) up in the Rockies, pretty remote from the >nearest proper town. Most of their ancestors originally came from a sime >territory on the other side of a now-inaccessible pass, & settled where >they did because they didn't fit in down in the Gen community. They are >pro-unity, and before the pass was blocked used to put their changeover >kids on a horse bound for the other side & hope.... Now they have asked >for a Sime Center, but their population density is too small and the >Tecton won't do it. The Tecton _will_ do _something_. They have no choice: they have guaranteed to stop the kill. Unfortunately, what the Tecton will probably offer Gens in remote areas is to take their children from age eleven until establishment into Tecton schools in more populated areas, and send them home as soon as selyn production is detected. Simes, of course, they transport to Sime Territory. Let's just assume that this solution is not acceptable to these very family oriented people (descended from Mormons, perhaps?). The big question you have to answer, then, is why they don't either settle in Sime Territory after Unity, or, if they are the only people in many square miles but they have their ranch established, seek to have the Sime Territory border moved to include them. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:59:26 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: Orange cats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Are these orange cats the ones that look so much like Henry VIII? They're > BIG and furry and orange and purr contentedly, as if they rule the world. > (g) Maybe I just have a wild imagination, but Henry VIII is who I think of > whenever I see one of those cats. > > > Chantal > The very best cat-companion I ever had was one such colored cat. BTW, you were asking about females of this variety, I believe it was said that "Morris" the 9-lives cat, was actually a female. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:16:09 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: The Gen "Killroom" story and the Chronology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:31 PM 2/1/98 -0800, Jory wrote: >Where can this story be purchased? What publishing house carries it? It's free, on the Companion in Zeor website. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:16:10 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: buried message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:21 PM 2/1/98 -0500, Jacqueline wrote: >Broadcast power isn't feasible today -- takes a huge underlying industrial >base. That huge underlying industrial base did not exist in our world when radio was invented. The one thing we did have that the S~G universe doesn't is the power grid--so they have to go with batteries. >Large numbers of Simes just don't work together in close quarters, >especially not confined close quarters. They get on each others' nerves, >and it's a long, long time into Unity before such large numbers of Simes >would work under the field-control of channels. > >Large numbers of Gens do work well together -- and they could build a Coolie >Dam project if the Simes would help them out with the technology. That is the reason the brief but incredible burst of post-Unity technology comes primarily out of Gulf, where Simes and Gens work shoulder to shoulder, keeping the fields happily balanced while they create a brave new world that is quite simply too good to last. And one more time: the Tecton NEEDS radio to spread its propaganda, or Unity is doomed before it gets a toehold. The two Nivet Territories we described in ZD (reread the book we wrote, Jacqueline) are just TOO HUGE to propagandize without a form of mass media--and one that isn't stopped by snowstorms. Thus the Tecton will EMBRACE radio, subsidize it, encourage it, and be bugging inventors to produce those standalone units with batteries, because there will NOT be a power grid to support them. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:17:11 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: GOSSIP: S~G fan gone professional MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline Lichtenberg wrote: > Anyway, I THOUGHT White Wolf was going bankrupt. Do they still publish? > Forgive my ignorance -- it's not part of the field I keep up with. No, yes, and no problems. :) Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:18:29 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: buried message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > Thus the Tecton will EMBRACE radio, subsidize it, encourage it, > and be bugging inventors to produce those standalone units with batteries, > because there will NOT be a power grid to support them. Jean And I still think Sergi's descendant will reinvent pedal radio while they're waiting for batteries to be developed. :) Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:29:55 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: Re: buried message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> Why should it be? Among the first methods that will be revived will be >> hydroelectric power. What could be cleaner? And I reiterate--the battery >> will be quickly reinvented in order to make standalone radios available so > > >What is cleaner you ask? Ocean Thermal. You pump water from deep to >the surface and out again. This generates a charge and is very >efficient. What pollution? Well, cold water. Not bad at all. Bottom >plankton..Ahh, good, the fish get a feast! > >This idea was tested in the 1930's and was quite successful. God only >knows why the government didn't start building them. Perhaps because only a small fraction of the United States is close enough to an ocean to make such a method practical? Mary Lou ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:34:47 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> JL's most recent challenge in the so-called "Gay Channel Controversy" was: >> If no Gay Channels, then no Straight what? > >And I say, if no female calico cats, then no male what? > >(Well, *nothing*, actually. Nature is under no obligation to be symmetrical.) Actually, it's female cats which can be calicos. The orange and grey colors are two different alleles of a gene carried on the X chromosome. So, a calico cat must have two X's. That generally means female, although there are (very, very rare and short lived) XXY male cats, which might (if both alleles of the color gene are present) be calicos. I think there's one recorded case of a male calico which survived birth. I don't know how long he lived. Mary Lou ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:48:00 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: buried message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:18 AM 2/2/98 +1100, Jenn wrote: >And I still think Sergi's descendant will reinvent pedal radio while >they're waiting for batteries to be developed. :) That's right--I forgot that out of Australian history Jenn had provided the solution to both the power problem and a way for unemployed renSimes to pay their selyn taxes and afford to augment! Thanks for reminding me, Jenn! Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:03:33 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: buried message In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980202001610.0068dfd8@msumusik.mursuky.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at Feb 1, 98 06:16:10 pm Content-Type: text Jean wrote: > The two Nivet Territories we > described in ZD (reread the book we wrote, Jacqueline) are just TOO HUGE to > propagandize without a form of mass media--and one that isn't stopped by > snowstorms. Thus the Tecton will EMBRACE radio, subsidize it, encourage it, > and be bugging inventors to produce those standalone units with batteries, > because there will NOT be a power grid to support them. Jean So why does it need radio? The Protestant Reformation managed perfectly well with pamphlets, and the Civil War with newspapers. Sure, there will be problems with delivery of printed matter, but radio broadcasting requires fairly large amounts of power (or extremely sensitive receivers; if they've just developed the technology they won't be mass-producing really sensitive ones). If they have the power grid to run large transmitting stations, then they probably have a power grid to most of the cities anyway. (Rural areas, I admit, are another matter.) Remember, the Tecton doesn't really have a clue about advertising campaigns and mass psychology (witness Klyd's reaction to Hugh's offhand suggestion of same): the ones who design the initial propaganda campaign will be Gens, and their first thought will be to use the methods and media familiar to them. So how did the Gen Territory governments, companies, etc., manage in the days before Simes? Newspapers, flyers, ... These will be used extensively. Radio will probably come in sometime late in Muryin's era, just before the Leander Field battle. Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:06:26 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: GOSSIP: S~G fan gone professional In-Reply-To: <34D50277.F2618CCB@brisnet.org.au> from "Jenn V." at Feb 2, 98 10:17:11 am Content-Type: text > Jacqueline Lichtenberg wrote: > > Anyway, I THOUGHT White Wolf was going bankrupt. Do they still publish? White Wolf, AFAIK, is fine. The game company going under was TSR, the people who invented D&D; they were bought out by Wizards of the Coast from Seattle (the people who invented the Magic: the Gathering card game and hence have oodles of money, at least for gaming-industry values of "oodles") Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:11:14 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tracy D Reeber Subject: Re: Out-territory Householdings > Now they have >asked >>for a Sime Center, but their population density is too small and the >>Tecton won't do it. > >The Tecton _will_ do _something_. They have no choice: they have >guaranteed to stop the kill. Unfortunately, what the Tecton will >probably >offer Gens in remote areas is to take their children from age eleven >until >establishment into Tecton schools in more populated areas, and send >them >home as soon as selyn production is detected. Simes, of course, they >transport to Sime Territory. > >Let's just assume that this solution is not acceptable to these very >family >oriented people (descended from Mormons, perhaps?). The big question >you >have to answer, then, is why they don't either settle in Sime >Territory >after Unity, or, if they are the only people in many square miles but >they >have their ranch established, seek to have the Sime Territory border >moved >to include them. Jean That's just it - the Tecton feels they have given them The Answer by offering to board their kids; but they have tried it and the first few kids had major problems adjusting, or DID adjust and didn't want to go home after establishing. Bear in mind that they have a generations old cultural gulf between themselves and the nearest 'mainstream' Gen community, because of their origins and because of religious differences (not Mormon, but a revived varient of Christianity & most definitely NOT Ch of Purity). Picture Amish families being told to send their kids off to boarding school - they'd do it to save their lives, maybe, but they would NOT see it as the 'best' solution. These people have also developed strong ties to their land. They've BEEN there for several generations, have stood their own ground against sime raids before the pass was blocked, and had to be very self sufficient. They are on the edge of HAVING to choose between several, all very unappealing, alternatives. How many oppressed people, or famine ridden people around the globe choose to stick it out where they are? For all the ones who become refugees in the 1st World, there are many who stay - and many of them by choice. Most Americans don't relate to that die hard stay on the land mentality, because most of us are descended from people who decided to pull stakes & try elsewhere. But we have our own too. I think the idea of moving the border is possible; how would the Gen government feel about that tho? Government officials usually hate to give up turf, in any form, even when it is logical. They would still have to get a channel & Donor up there, tho, & the old route is blocked. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:36:18 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye Subject: Re: Out-territory Householdings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maybe i'tll be a point of "how you gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen the Tecton?" (for those of you not familiar ther was a song during or after WWI, "How you gonna keep 'em down on the farm, after they've seen Par-ee"). I can think of any number of reasons a kid would not wnat to return to a subsistance farm or even a relatively prosperous one after seeing what the Tecton offers: (probably) running water freedom from fear of changeover Simes, Berserkers, and Raiders resources (financial and otherwise) of a more industrialized society increased social interactions increased cultural activities the satisfaction of donating and 'saving a life' every month of the new Gen's life (probably) a better education available (frequently) a romance started with another Tectonite a larger variety of occupations to choose from So to a great degree, the Tecton WILL have the answer - from teh KIDS' point of views. Just not from the parents'. I see the Gen Territory kids, especially, making a shift from the rural areas to the urban (and creating suburban) areas similar to that which happened during our Industrial Revolution. I see the older generation agonizing over the fact just as much as our ancestors agonised over their own children going to the cities. There's a term "land proud" that I think the older generation would be. "We've had this property for X generations. I'm sure as hell not gonna give it up to go live with Simes!" And the kid goes, "well, I'm not gonna die in Changeover or kill one of you for the sake of your property." Hmm... the Gen govt might feel about it similar to how the Communists felt about letting people out-migrate!!! THey didn't put the Berlin Wall up to keep us out. THey put it up to keep their own people in. There were crosses every half-mile or so along the Berlin Wall, where people who tried to escape died from Communist bullets or land mines - I've seen them. The Gen government might take the attitude that 2/3 of the Gen kids were gonna be Gen and they didn't want a mass exodus of kids who might not ever come back except for Faith Day. There might be a Gen Wall. Wouldn't the Tecton love that if a county or sub-territory went that route? But "Turf", to governments, often includes people. Jaye "Old Friends, they mean much more to me than new frieneds Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. Harry Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:36:04 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: QAMH Subject: Re: The Gen "Killroom" story. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F48645B028B9E9375101D385" --------------F48645B028B9E9375101D385 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenn V wrote,(Snipped) > First time I've been published... > > WHEEEEE!!!!! > > Jenn V. > Congratulations, you beauty. I found the story yesterday and read it there and then. i thought it was wonderful and i can't wait to read any others you may have done in the S~G universe. Your other stories are great too. Stay Safe, Stay Strong. Zoe --------------F48645B028B9E9375101D385 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenn V wrote,(Snipped)
First time I've been published...

WHEEEEE!!!!!

Jenn V.
 

  Congratulations, you beauty.

I found the story yesterday and read it there and then. i thought it was wonderful and i can't wait to read any others you may have done in the S~G universe. Your other stories are great too.

Stay Safe, Stay Strong.
Zoe
 
  --------------F48645B028B9E9375101D385-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:37:18 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: QAMH Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Cowan wrote: > > JL's most recent challenge in the so-called "Gay Channel Controversy" was: > > If no Gay Channels, then no Straight what? > > And I say, if no female calico cats, then no male what? > > (Well, *nothing*, actually. Nature is under no obligation to be symmetrical.) > > -- > John Cowan cowan@ccil.org > e'osai ko sarji la lojban. Actually "Tortoiseshell" Tortoiseshell cats are almost always female, and Ginger cats are almost always male. And quite often pure white cats are deaf, but not always. Stay safe, Stay Strong. Zoe. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:38:44 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: buried message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:03 PM 2/1/98 -0800, Tony wrote: >So why does it [the Tecton] need radio? The Protestant Reformation managed >perfectly >well with pamphlets, and the Civil War with newspapers. The Protestand Reformation and the Civil War did not have a deadline of approximately six months, after which all would be lost if they had not changed the minds of well over a majority of the people they were trying to influence. If the Tecton does not get a whole lot of junct minds under their control _fast_, when they hit disjuction crisis, _enough_ juncts will go raiding across borders to blow the treaty sky high. Next step: Zelerod's Doom. >Remember, the Tecton doesn't really have a clue about advertising >campaigns and mass psychology Either they learn very fast (from Gens), or what Jacqueline claims happened didn't happen: they never succeeded in their propaganda campaign, Gens refused to donate, Simes went raiding, the treaties failed, and Zelerod's Doom happened. End of Sime~Gen series, and all novels set after ZD are fantasy. >Newspapers, flyers, ... These will be used extensively. Radio >will probably come in sometime late in Muryin's era, just before >the Leander Field battle. Not if I manage to sell "Reflection of a Dream." Fifteen years after Unity, Zhag and Tonyo are being played on the radio in that story. If they're not, then that story didn't happen, or the entire part they played in S~G history, because without it they remained small-time vaudevillians in one little corner of Gulf Territory. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:46:09 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: The Gen "Killroom" story. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit QAMH wrote: > > Congratulations, you beauty. > > I found the story yesterday and read it there and then. i thought it was > wonderful and i can't wait to read any others you may have done in the > S~G universe. Your other stories are great too. Only one other finished Sime~Gen story, and it's accepted and waiting on illustrations. For people wondering what the 'other stories' Zoe referred to are: http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn and follow the 'fiction' link. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:15:36 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: WORK: Out-territory Householdings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have moved this discussion under the WORK topic mask, because we are now getting into technical matters of plotting. At 06:11 PM 2/1/98 -0800, Tracy wrote: >That's just it - the Tecton feels they have given them The Answer by >offering to board their kids; but they have tried it and the first few >kids had major problems adjusting, or DID adjust and didn't want to go >home after establishing. Bear in mind that they have a generations old >cultural gulf between themselves and the nearest 'mainstream' Gen >community, because of their origins and because of religious differences >(not Mormon, but a revived varient of Christianity & most definitely NOT >Ch of Purity). Picture Amish families being told to send their kids off >to boarding school - they'd do it to save their lives, maybe, but they >would NOT see it as the 'best' solution. These people have also >developed strong ties to their land. They've BEEN there for several >generations, have stood their own ground against sime raids before the >pass was blocked, and had to be very self sufficient. They are on the >edge of HAVING to choose between several, all very unappealing, >alternatives. How many oppressed people, or famine ridden people around >the globe choose to stick it out where they are? For all the ones who >become refugees in the 1st World, there are many who stay - and many of >them by choice. Most Americans don't relate to that die hard stay on the >land mentality, because most of us are descended from people who decided >to pull stakes & try elsewhere. But we have our own too. > >I think the idea of moving the border is possible; how would the Gen >government feel about that tho? Government officials usually hate to >give up turf, in any form, even when it is logical. They would still >have to get a channel & Donor up there, tho, & the old route is blocked. You are starting to define the Conflict in your story, Tracy. Yes--the Gen government would block the attempt to move the border, so they would decide to form a Householding--but to do that they need a minimum of a channel and that channel's Companion permanently in residence. When they start out, they are all Gens and children--for a few years they won't have much channeling for a channel to do. The Tecton needs every channel operating somewhere else. So...what you have to find is a channel/Companion pair doing something else, like Zhag and Tonyo--but unlike Zhag and Tonyo the ones you need must not be _successfully_ or _dedicatedly_ doing something else. And you need a reason the Tecton does not conscript the channel. The reason Zhag is not conscripted is A) he is junct, so he could only work in Sime Territory, and B) he lives in Gulf, where there are enough matches so that once he is back in good health they can get along without his services (though I really must think about a story in which he and Tonyo get temporarily conscripted). Ah--your people have given the Tecton enough time to try sending their children to Tecton schools. That could take them to the time when the Tecton decides to retire its remaining junct channels. These channels have matchmates, but nevertheless they have only a short time to live because even though they haven't killed in many years, junctedness held off by transfers from a junct Gen eventually results in the systems becoming so unbalanced that health deteriorates and after a time nothing can restore it. Now...what if your people offered two or three of these forcefully retired Channel/Companion pairs a place to live where there would be intermittent work for them without the constant stress of the Sime Center? The Companions would be in good enough health, and would be expected to outlive their channels. This new Householding would give them a reason to go on living. Your people would then be watching every changeover in their community eagerly, praying for their own young channel to appear while they still have at least one of these old channels alive to train him or her. It's your story, Tracy. I could take this premise and sketch half a dozen dramatic plot outlines from it in no time--but it's yours, and you may want to go in a completely different direction from this suggestion. But if you like the idea, take it and run! Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:45:28 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: buried message In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980202033844.006b9a54@msumusik.mursuky.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at Feb 1, 98 09:38:44 pm Content-Type: text Jean wrote: > At 06:03 PM 2/1/98 -0800, Tony wrote: > >So why does it [the Tecton] need radio? The Protestant Reformation managed > >perfectly > >well with pamphlets, and the Civil War with newspapers. > > The Protestand Reformation and the Civil War did not have a deadline of > approximately six months, after which all would be lost if they had not > changed the minds of well over a majority of the people they were trying to > influence. Ah. I hadn't realized we were talking about this period and population. I thought we were talking about influencing Gen populations some time after the First Contract. One suspects, though, that if they got mass-produced radios out _this_ fast, then radios had already been invented and were in fairly wide use. A six-month deadline for inventing, mass-producing, distributing, _and_ convincing everybody -- I don't see it happening, not in the Sime Territories. Maybe, if radio was already in use in Gen Territory, and Rior or somebody had been planning this for a while, but I don't see much sign of that; Rior just isn't that old, and this isn't their thing. Possibly radio was a Gen Army secret or something, they were producing sets for a campaign, and they offered them to support the cause when they realized that the Tecton was in difficulty. Any way you slice it, a mass propaganda operation in the early Tecton years is going to be a Gen Territory operation, since the Householding's don't have the expertise or the industrial base to produce radios, or any advertising experience at all. There's another difficulty. Who says the juncts are going to listen to Tecton radio broadcasts? Or believe them? After all, they can't zlin the speakers to see if they're telling the truth . Then again, that applies to newsletters or pamphlets too. Maybe a combined-arms operation? Channels are going to be working overtime just giving transfers and training the Thirds, so Companions, renSimes, and Gen Territory officiials fan out explaining the new regime. "You don't have to raid. We'll give you all the selyn you want, as long as you take it from the channels. If you've got cravings, the Tecton has junct channels who can satisfy them [which is a carefully-crafted Tecton lie, but a lot of New Washington folk won't know that]." The radio programs would be an additional reinforcement of the basic effort, not the whole effort itself. > If the Tecton does not get a whole lot of junct minds under their control > _fast_, when they hit disjuction crisis, _enough_ juncts will go raiding > across borders to blow the treaty sky high. Next step: Zelerod's Doom. The Pen System is still running, no? When they hit disjunction crisis, they go through Door #1 and get a Gen, instead of Door #2 where the channel is waiting. The Tecton may have to work on convincing out-Territory Gens to donate, but they don't need huge amounts of selyn just yet; for the first few years, they can survive by regularly stripping the dwindling Pen populations. The big crunch will be a few years later, when they're running out of Pen Gens _and_ they have to give transfers to the growing numbers of Simes coming from out-Territory; they have a bit more time than six months to work with. The crisis isn't _that_ imminent, IMO. Then again, the characters at the time might not see that. People caught up in desperate situations don't always have time for a full analysis. > Either they learn very fast (from Gens), or what Jacqueline claims happened > didn't happen: they never succeeded in their propaganda campaign, Gens > refused to donate, Simes went raiding, the treaties failed, and Zelerod's > Doom happened. I'd be an advocate of the "learn fast" theory. Still, the Gen Army can provide the first batches of selyn ("OK, men. Line up. You're fulfilling your duty today, just in a ... slightly different way.") The channels won't like it, but they need the selyn... > Fifteen years after Unity, > Zhag and Tonyo are being played on the radio in that story. If they're not, > then that story didn't happen, or the entire part they played in S~G > history, because without it they remained small-time vaudevillians in one > little corner of Gulf Territory. Hmm... Fifteen years is pushing it a bit, I think, to have lots of radios all across Sime Territory (a previously non-radio society), unless the Gen Territories had gone to mass-producing them. Which I suppose they might have, as part of (not the whole of) the major propaganda campaign. But a lot of that campaign will have used previously existing channels to get the word out. Printing a bunch of newspapers and getting them out is probably faster than building a bunch of radios, building a bunch of transmitters, getting the radios out there, solving propagation problems, and then broadcasting a message. But having the radios, and the propaganda campaign, mostly be run from Gen Territory, could do it, especially if Hugh or somebody had been working with New Washington advertising specialists for a few years before ZD. ("Your assignment: market us Householdings to Simes. No, you can't do mass polls, because all your trained pollsters would be killed soon after crossing the border. You're going to have to rework all the little tiny cues, since Simes respond to a different set than Gens. No, we don't know what those cues are. Let it be a challenge to you.") (Hmm... I'd forgotten that trying to rationalize stuff like this was so much fun.) Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:54:22 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tracy D Reeber Subject: Re: Out-territory Householdings On Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:36:18 -0800 Jaye writes: >Maybe i'tll be a point of "how you gonna keep 'em down on the farm >after >they've seen the Tecton?" Bingo. > So to a great degree, the Tecton WILL have the answer - from >teh KIDS' >point of views. Just not from the parents'. Yes and no. The kids who leave home, remember , are only about 10 or 11; and they are from a pretty isolated community. Besides the high stress of being awa from parents for the first time, the culture shock is enormous, and for some overwhelming. If you've never lived for an extended time in another culture, it is easy to underestimate how disorienting it can be. Some want to go home after establishing, only to suffer reverse culture shock when they get home (also very real - been there, done that!). Also, the years they spend boarding are PRIME learning years in an agricultural society. As I envision it, eventually my community get their own channels, prob. by joining an existing Householding &/or shifting the border, and the kids start having access to the options without having to be so drastically uprooted. >"We've had this property for X generations. I'm sure as hell not gonna >give >it up to go live with Simes!" And the kid goes, "well, I'm not gonna >die in >Changeover or kill one of you for the sake of your property." Again, yes & no - the parents don't want to see their kids die, either, and the kids also feel this is their home. It is a situation where NONE of the people involved have black&white, cut & dried feelings. >Hmm... the Gen govt might feel about it similar to how the Communists >felt >about letting people out-migrate!!! THey didn't put the Berlin Wall up >to >keep us out. THey put it up to keep their own people in. There were >crosses >every half-mile or so along the Berlin Wall, where people who tried to >escape died from Communist bullets or land mines - I've seen them. The >Gen >government might take the attitude that 2/3 of the Gen kids were gonna >be >Gen and they didn't want a mass exodus of kids who might not ever come >back >except for Faith Day. There might be a Gen Wall. Wouldn't the Tecton >love >that if a county or sub-territory went that route? But "Turf", to >governments, often includes people. >Jaye Yeah, I could see that. This is getting complicated (but fun). Tracy _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:16:43 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: buried message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > Hmm... Fifteen years is pushing it a bit, I think, to have lots of > radios all across Sime Territory (a previously non-radio society), > unless the Gen Territories had gone to mass-producing them. Which > I suppose they might have, as part of (not the whole of) the major > propaganda campaign. Again, PLEASE would people in this discussion hunt up the history of Australia's Royal Flying Doctor Service. Rev. John Flynn was the man who instigated it, and can be an additional reference point. None of the things you're talking about are as impossible as you think they are *OR* Australians are one *HELL* of an incredible crowd. It's that choice. Because - admittedly in a different situation - it's a case of 'we've done it'. Radios can be made quickly and reasonably easily by a society with very little industrial base, and - if they're both transmitter and receiver - will be used. They won't necessarily be *good* radios, or *powerful* radios, but Rev. Flynn spanned the outback with radios .. I can't find my book which states how long it took him, but it was considerably less than fifteen years, and it was in the earlyish years of this century. Yes, radio has to have been already developed, and yes, electricity has to have been already developed. But this is *developed*, not *in use*, and all it takes is one brilliant mind to put A and B together and make C and push for it. Y'know, this could be the thing Deann ambrov Ahlvastin did, after the Tecton got started. I've already established in my head that Ahlvastin was one of the propaganda-creators of the Modern Tecton... Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:45:11 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: buried message In-Reply-To: <34D548AB.8E311CF0@brisnet.org.au> from "Jenn V." at Feb 2, 98 03:16:43 pm Content-Type: text Jenn V wrote: > Radios can be made quickly and reasonably easily by a society with very > little industrial base, and - if they're both transmitter and receiver - > will be used. > > Yes, radio has to have been already developed, and yes, electricity has to > have been already developed. But this is *developed*, not *in use*, and all > it takes is one brilliant mind to put A and B together and make C and push > for it. I keep forgetting the possibility that someone had a "Radio Manufacturing Manual" from Ancient times, as well. I think it's possible, provided that Gen Territory is the one making the radios, but I do see some serious difficulties in getting them accepted quickly by Sime Territory. A six-month timespan is _very_ short for something like this. Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:51:34 EST Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: buried message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << I keep forgetting the possibility that someone had a "Radio Manufacturing Manual" from Ancient times, as well. I think it's possible, provided that Gen Territory is the one making the radios, but I do see some serious difficulties in getting them accepted quickly by Sime Territory. A six-month timespan is _very_ short for something like this. Tony Z >> Use today's current analogy of computers as a substitute for "radio." How many people today are leery of using a computer. There are still many people kicking and screaming rather than attempting the use of a computer. The same may be said of "radios" in the S~G time frame. They may be available, but not widely used or accepted. Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:56:15 EST Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << Actually "Tortoiseshell" Tortoiseshell cats are almost always female, and Ginger cats are almost always male. And quite often pure white cats are deaf, but not always. Stay safe, Stay Strong. Zoe. >> Pure white cats with Blue eyes are usually deaf. There is one roaming around my neighborhood who was rejected by his owner. BTW I feed him, but he refuses to trust me enough to join us in the house. By some miracle he has not been killed by a car. White cats with odd color eyes (one bllue, one another color) or eyes which are usually gold or yellow are more often than not, those which can hear. Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:26:00 EST Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Elizabeth Sheeks Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The fact that he has lived this long, Karen, probably means he'd learned how to look both ways, or to feel for vibrations in the street. 'Course, I'm sympathic. I was born deaf--either that or someone dropped me on my head when I was little... Here's hoping he trusts you soon and joins you. I also seem to remember that Dalmations with blue eyes are usually deaf, and most breeders have them put down when their deafness is discovered. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. And, speaking of deaf cats. There will definitely be deaf Gens and Simes--most of the deaf population will tell you they became deaf through illness, not genes. Actually, it's something like 5% genetic, 95% illness, accidents, or listening to too much loud music. Trust me, some of the Simes and Gens will, later on, after Tonyo and Zhag and many other entertainers, will start to notice a decrease in their hearing...ie "What? What did you say? Huh? The cat went to the hospital?" Which reminds me. Is there any deaf schools in either Sime or Gen terrorities, and if so when were they potentially set up? Methinks it depends on the number of deaf children. That's how the first deaf institutions here in America were set up--parents of deaf children found each other, counted heads and figured, why not set up a school? There's a lot of fascinating stories about that era. Something to think about... LS ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:37:53 EST Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kaas Baichtal Subject: Re: buried message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << What is cleaner you ask? Ocean Thermal. You pump water from deep to the surface and out again. This generates a charge and is very efficient. What pollution? Well, cold water. Not bad at all. Bottom plankton..Ahh, good , the fish get a feast! This idea was tested in the 1930's and was quite successful. God only knows why the government didn't start building them. >> I studied Ocean Thermal energy in high school and IIRC the difficulty in the process involved the chemical beating the equipment takes. The surfaces would have to be plated with an impractically large amount of a rare and expensive metal the US doesn't produce much of, I forget which it was, titanium perhaps? --Kaas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:11:38 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: buried message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I studied Ocean Thermal energy in high school and IIRC the difficulty in the > process involved the chemical beating the equipment takes. The surfaces would > have to be plated with an impractically large amount of a rare and expensive > metal the US doesn't produce much of, I forget which it was, titanium perhaps? > Maybe Palladium, perhaps? Nowadays it should be easier to come by. In the 1930's when the experiment was first made, it was a success. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:07:53 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robert McCann Subject: Re: BACK: Gay Rensimes In-Reply-To: <199801310434.WAA14485@mailhost.onramp.net> from Ronnie Bob Whitaker at "Jan 30, 98 10:34:41 pm" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Listfolk: I just have time for a quick note here, as it is close to 11:00 here on the west coast, I am preparing for a week's business trip to Florida, and so am in something like dire need. Nevertheless, the responses to my original post concerning gay rensimes have gone in various fascinating directions, and I wanted to clarify a couple of them, and comment on others. First, Ronnie Bob did indeed provide a consideration of possible submutations that went well beyond my original proposal, and his (her?) observations were both useful and insightful. Nevertheless, I think my original proposal has the additional merit that it is linked to a sociological development... the founding and maintenance of Rathor... that Ronnie Bob's submutations (at present) aren't. By linking gay rensimes to Rathor, we have a mechanism whereby they can exercise as big a role in the evolution of the S/G universe as the channels. Second, I think it is worth emphasizing that I was proposing a new submutation, as well as a role for gays in the S/G universe. Although Jacqueline was quick to give her blessing to the gay/Rathor connection, I haven't seen a reaction to the specific form of submutation I proposed. That was that gay rensimes have the opposite reaction to Gen fear and pain to straight rensimes... and fashion a society where Simes don't kill Gens as a result. Some have argued that this must be modified to include an distaste for gen fear, rather than pain, because of the HOZ character Narvoon. However, Narvoon may have indulged in his tortures to dull the gen reaction on both the fear and pain dimensions... I have read that prolonged torture can put the recipient into kind of a trance-like state, deadening the intensity of the usual pain response to yet more stimulation. Same thing with fear... it is hard to keep up a full-fledged fear response when the stimuli just keep on coming at you... And someone also made the observation that it has been fairly well established that rensimes cannot control selyn flow, so the only way Sime/Gen transfers could develop that didn't involve killing would be for the Sime to short repeatedly, the gens would see this, gain confidence that the Sime would not kill, and gradually lose their fear. This is certainly possible, but remember we are talking here about a distinct submutation. Normal rensimes may not be able to control flow, but the gay-linked submutation-type rensimes may be able to. It depends on how powerful this submutation is allowed to be... and since it forms the esoteric counterpoint to the channel submutation, I would think it would have to have considerable power indeed. Have a great week, everyone! RSM ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:22:45 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: buried message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karen Litman wrote: > Use today's current analogy of computers as a substitute for "radio." How > many people today are leery of using a computer. There are still many people > kicking and screaming rather than attempting the use of a computer. The same > may be said of "radios" in the S~G time frame. They may be available, but not > widely used or accepted. Karen Litman All it really takes is for -some- members of a community to have access to the information/gossip/propaganda. Preferably influential members. Preferably the gossips. Also... who remembers their parents/grandparents talking about radio dramas? About whole families or communities huddling round to listen to a crackly rendition of "Dad and Dave" having adventures in the outback... (Well, maybe not "Dad and Dave" or "The Sentimental Bloke", but whatever your equivalents were) Propaganda can happen through entertainment, too. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:35:08 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Radio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Folks, here we are, many of you "dragged kicking and screaming" to use computers just to join this list--and how many of you would give up e-mail once you have it? Karen, I am surprised at you--you were one of the last holdouts, and look at what you have gone through in the past year just to communicate. Communication is addictive. Radio is _easy_. You turn a button to turn it on. You turn another button to go up and down the dial to find something. End of story. A monkey can operate a radio receiver. Now--I woke up this morning realizing that all of us have _completely forgotten_ an entire culture co-existing with us in the world today. Ham radio. We have _totally forgotten_ shortwave radio. As the world goes down in flames, users of shortwave radio, military, government, and private, will be retrofitting as rapidly as they can to stay on the air. Back in the 1940's the U.S. parachuted observers onto deserted islands in the Pacific to watch the movements of Japanese ships and planes and report them via shortwave radio. What powered those radios, sometimes for _years_? Some kind of generator run by a _hand crank_! Whatever the hell it was, it was so efficient that it didn't even require foot pedals--in other words, unless Hollywood totally lied to us in those endless WWII movies of my childhood, one good cranking set the thing up to run for long enough to get a five- to ten-minute message out, without the operator having to expend energy to keep it going through the whole broadcast. And those radios. They had to be simple enough to be kept in operation by a single individual with no chance of getting any supplies he couldn't build out of rocks and palm fronds, and sturdy enough to survive being parachuted in, then suffering South Seas humidity and salt air for years on end. That technology has to be available today, if only in museums. If the world collapsed slowly, as in S~G, it would be resurrected and preserved. Those crank "telephones" seen in the field--those things had to really be radio with a telephone handset. Again, they are available for inspection in military museums. Tony is right--this kind of technology would _already exist_ in some Gen militaries somewhere, and all the Tecton would have to do is _adapt_ it for broadcast. As for the six month deadline, they are not going to make it, of course--but as the Tecton sweats out getting junct Simes through their first crises, and then lets them kill once, and they get crankier and crankier complaining about only feeling healthy twice a year--as the threat of raids becomes greater because they _are_ allowed to kill when they hit crisis and they think like juncts, it becomes _more and more imperative_ to get propaganda out by every possible means into every corner of every territory. In fact, it is most important to reach those juncts out in frontier areas _near_ borders, where they are most likely to think they can get away with the occasional raid. The time frame I think _really_ happened is two to three years to reach 75-80% saturation, and five years to be able to reach almost everyone in the Territories, Sime and Gen, signatory to the First Contract. And during that time period the Tecton has to learn from Gens, and from Gulf Territory, that it takes a spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down. IOW, at first radio is such a novelty that pure propaganda is interesting, then news and weather and practical educational stuff get added--but to keep people tuning in every day, they eventually have to offer humor, music, and drama: entertainment. And of course they will _never_ reach _everyone_, and some people are going to be immune to any kind or amount of propaganda. But the chance of getting killed has to be brought down to about where the chance of getting murdered is today--Gens have to have the illusion of safety from Simes, the way we all have the illusion of safety from getting killed in an automobile accident, before Unity is anything but a precarious dream that could collapse at any moment. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:54:54 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: BACK: Deaf Simes and Gens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:26 AM 2/2/98 EST, Lady Serez wrote: >And, speaking of deaf cats. There will definitely be deaf Gens and Simes--most >of the deaf population will tell you they became deaf through illness, not >genes. Actually, it's something like 5% genetic, 95% illness, accidents, or >listening to too much loud music. Trust me, some of the Simes and Gens will, >later on, after Tonyo and Zhag and many other entertainers, will start to >notice a decrease in their hearing...ie "What? What did you say? Huh? The cat >went to the hospital?" Tonyo and Zhag are not that loud--no amps in their day. Tonyo's _nager_ is very, very "loud." >Which reminds me. Is there any deaf schools in either Sime or Gen terrorities, >and if so when were they potentially set up? Methinks it depends on the number >of deaf children. That's how the first deaf institutions here in America were >set up--parents of deaf children found each other, counted heads and figured, >why not set up a school? There's a lot of fascinating stories about that era. This is something else Keon would be involved in, especially as Sergi ambrov Keon has a severe hearing loss from the time he almost got blown up with the steel mill. Because he has a Companion's sensitivity, he can follow a conversation, but he is uncomfortable among strangers unless Risa is at his side. See ZD. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:54:56 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: buried message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:16 PM 2/2/98 +1100, Jenn wrote: >None of the things you're talking about are as impossible as you think they >are *OR* Australians are one *HELL* of an incredible crowd. It's that >choice. Because - admittedly in a different situation - it's a case of >'we've done it'. Jenn is a marvelous addition to this list because she lives in a culture that strongly parallels the North America of the years surrounding Unity. Please listen to her, people--she knows wherof she speaks. >Radios can be made quickly and reasonably easily by a society with very >little industrial base, and - if they're both transmitter and receiver - >will be used. YES! >Y'know, this could be the thing Deann ambrov Ahlvastin did, after the >Tecton got started. I've already established in my head that Ahlvastin was >one of the propaganda-creators of the Modern Tecton... Wonderful! Keep it up, Jenn! Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@msumusik.mursuky.edu (alternate e-dress Jean1@Juno.com) "I don't think happiness is a permanent state; it's some kind of treaty you make with your circumstances at the time."--Robert Plant http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:22:56 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Subject: That damned cat! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course I meant to say "no male calicos". Sorry for creating such a tangle of responses. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:49:22 EST Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: M Petrino Subject: Re: Orange cats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Genetic 2 cents: You can get a male calico, but he is an xxy male, and infertile. M G Petrino ninetiger@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:31:15 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kandace Klumper Subject: Strayla Chat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I tried out the chat Saturday afternoon, as Jenn can attest. :) My first = time there. It was pretty cool. Couldn't believe how nice and simple it w= as. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:53:40 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: buried message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > > At 03:16 PM 2/2/98 +1100, Jenn wrote: > > >None of the things you're talking about are as impossible as you think they > >are *OR* Australians are one *HELL* of an incredible crowd. It's that > >choice. Because - admittedly in a different situation - it's a case of > >'we've done it'. > > Jenn is a marvelous addition to this list because she lives in a culture > that strongly parallels the North America of the years surrounding Unity. > Please listen to her, people--she knows wherof she speaks. Not just me, but Gossamer, Allison, Zoe, Peter Jones and Eliza. If any of us say 'that's been done' _or_ 'that's not possible with our level of population density', its from experience. The main reason I tend to say these things first is that I'm one of two of us welded to the computer, and the other one is shy. :) (I'm teasing) Goss, Ally, Zoe, Peter, Eliza.. I know some of you weren't on the list when Jean said this, but: our population density and characteristics are not-dissimilar to those in the northern american continent around Unity. Thus, -we- have an experience which most of the list members don't have, we live in a culture like-but-different-from the US culture, in circumstances of poorer soil, harsher climate, and lower population density.... not unlike the situation of the Sime~Gen experience. So if you think something doesn't take the environment into account.. um .. you've got a decent chance of being right. :) Speak up. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:54:54 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Re: Request for Info Jean writes: > > Jacqueline and I ran out of the paperback copies we purchased for resale > years ago. Occasionally we have a copy that has turned up in a used book > store. Whenever anyone finds such books now, the first thing they do is > post to the list--no reason today to have them go to Jacqueline or me and > THEN to the person looking for them. But either of us will purchase used > copies if no one on the list is looking for those particular books at that > time--someone will come along looking for them eventually. > Maybe we should set up a web page detailing which books have been found where. Then we can have a "book exchange." (In other words, the page could list which books someone has found and/or purchased in their town, along with that person's email address and the cost of the books + shipping.) Then anybody who wants a particular book could contact that person to make arrangements. --Robyn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:46:03 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jeffrey Parker Subject: Re: buried message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Why are we all talking about radio? We have already determined that Selyn has a hyperdimensional energy component. Most models of an extremely high energy universe would indicate a small universe, and with the size and the high energy levels, point to point communications would be efficient and quick. We have also already determined that Simes need to zlyn to really believe. So... Instead of radio, we invent selynio. This is a transmission of field gradients along with sound and is powered by selyn, much like the much talked about train. This really works well for Zhag and Tonyo's music. Just a thought. Jeff Parker ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:24:38 EST Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Radio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit OK, Jean, I stand humbly corrected. But I still know many people, other than myself who are computer holdouts. I was using the computer as a comparison not as an actual lesson. I suspect the use of radio in S~G times will spread as more people would have access to them. Similar to the use of computers, which was what I was trying to say. There are still large ham radio clubs in my area, as are users of Citizen's Band (CB) radios which were popular in the 1970's. So the radio idea in one form or another is not far fetched. Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:37:06 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Radio In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980202123508.006b18e0@msumusik.mursuky.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at Feb 2, 98 06:35:08 am Content-Type: text Jean wrote: > We have _totally forgotten_ shortwave radio. > > As the world goes down in flames, users of shortwave radio, military, > government, and private, will be retrofitting as rapidly as they can to stay > on the air. Right. And the people using it will be mostly Gen Territories. Of course, we have to explain why we haven't seen it anywhere in the books and stories yet; with that kind of coordination the Gen Border Patrol would have _major_ advantages. Possibly it gets remembered better in Australia and the American West, and doesn't show up in New Washington or other territories bordering Nivet until much nearer Klyd's time. > The time frame I think _really_ happened is two to three years to reach > 75-80% saturation, and five years to be able to reach almost everyone in the > Territories, Sime and Gen, signatory to the First Contract. I think I can buy this timeframe. It's a crunch, but it's a lot more doable than the six-month set-up. Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:59:10 +1100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Request for Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robyn King-Nitschke wrote: > > Maybe we should set up a web page detailing which books have > been found where. Then we can have a "book exchange." (In other words, > the page could list which books someone has found and/or purchased > in their town, along with that person's email address and the cost > of the books + shipping.) Then anybody who wants a particular book > could contact that person to make arrangements. Easiest way to do that - one which requires no special coding on anyone's part - is for Gossamer to add a new board to the World Controller's Boards. Would that work? Do enough people KNOW about the boards?! Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@brisnet.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:14:59 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Re: Cats Karen Litman wrote: >Pure white cats with Blue eyes are usually deaf. Well, there are exceptions. This story goes back a long time, I was still in junior high school (and never mind _how_ many years ago that was) when this old white cats with blue eyes started coming around. We fed him, but he was too wild to be willing to stay inside. When he first started coming around he could hear, although a few years later he started going deaf and developed a cataract (did I spell that right?) in one eye. He ended up being shot by some kids who _claimed_ they thought he was a rabbit. Larry Ulrey ulrey@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:34:31 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Radio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Radio is available out-T in Digen's time. UZF p. 137 (p.b. ed.): # Some surgeons had to have a radio playing while they operated [...] Since it is Simes, not Gens, who preserve the knowledge of electricity (HoZ passim), we can assume that this is a Sime product that diffused across the Borders fairly early. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (FW 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:35:00 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: Re: Out-territory Householdings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> Now they have >>asked >>>for a Sime Center, but their population density is too small and the >>>Tecton won't do it. >> >>The Tecton _will_ do _something_. They have no choice: they have >>guaranteed to stop the kill. Unfortunately, what the Tecton will >>probably >>offer Gens in remote areas is to take their children from age eleven >>until >>establishment into Tecton schools in more populated areas, and send >>them >>home as soon as selyn production is detected. Simes, of course, they >>transport to Sime Territory. Actually, if the families involved aren't carrying a lot of channel genes, the obvious answer is to send a Third Order Donor out to teach changeover training, and to serve changeovers. There are plenty of Thirds, after all, and they could handle a renSime with no trouble. When a changeover happens, the Donor escorts the kid in-Territory, and a new, high-field Third takes over. If the families are carrying channel genes, their Sime offspring are too valuable to risk, and a channel and Donor gets sent up there, population nonwithstanding. >I think the idea of moving the border is possible; how would the Gen >government feel about that tho? Government officials usually hate to >give up turf, in any form, even when it is logical. They would still >have to get a channel & Donor up there, tho, & the old route is blocked. > Moving the border solves nothing; you'd still have to persuade the Tecton to send a channel or Donor out there. That's actually more likely if the area is Gen Territory, since the Tecton would get good out-T PR for the gesture. Taking in chunks of Gen Territory, on the other hand, would endanger the out-T cooperation necessary for the Tecton's survival. Mary Lou ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:35:34 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: Re: radio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 06:03 PM 2/1/98 -0800, Tony wrote: > >>So why does it [the Tecton] need radio? The Protestant Reformation managed >>perfectly >>well with pamphlets, and the Civil War with newspapers. > >The Protestand Reformation and the Civil War did not have a deadline of >approximately six months, after which all would be lost if they had not >changed the minds of well over a majority of the people they were trying to >influence. I'm voting for paper propaganda as the major source of preliminary Tecton advertising. It's the only thing familiar enough to produce and distribute in time. Paper distribution takes time, but not as much as creating, distributing, and popularizing a new technology. The Tecton would have the advantage that the subject matter would be of overwhelming interest in all affected Territories. People would actively seek out the latest news, even if it was three weeks old. The Gen miliary and Sime Pen systems had the infrastructure to reach all Simes, and all Gens close enough to the border or a big city to be worth the channel's travel time to collect donations. There would be an entire spring, summer, and fall to get things set up. With sufficient will (which was certainly not lacking), paper would do the trick. Mary Lou ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:40:21 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Sliderail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The sliderail system described in UZF is almost certainly a naglev (nageric analogue of maglev) system: it "slide[s] on a cushion of air" (p. 19) and it "hover[s] just a finger's breadth above its track[,] its selyn-powered engines idling" (p. 25). -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (FW 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:45:54 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Radio and Telephones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > Those crank "telephones" seen in the field--those things had to really be > radio with a telephone handset. Again, they are available for inspection in > military museums. No, those really are telephones, running over hand-laid wires and powered by batteries. It doesn't take much of a battery to run a phone, and you can really do without it altogether if you use a dynamic microphone (the type used by singers, etc.) rather than a carbon mic such as is found in standard telephones. The purpose of the crank is to generate a surge of high-voltage, low-frequency electricity to ring the bell at the other end, that's all. The reason for using real telephones in field conditions rather than radio is communications privacy. In any kind of static situation (such as WWI trenches), running wires between the front and the rear isn't that hard, and while they can be cut by an enemy assault, they cannot readily be tapped. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (FW 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:59:35 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Matchmates (was: Request for Info) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > Donor is the Tecton's term for a Companion. Only in Gulf Territory, and > only for a limited time after Unity, were Gens matched with renSimes. Such > Gens probably were _not_ referred to as Donors, to avoid confusion in the > Tecton paperwork that had to be handled even in Gulf. I suggest that the term used for such Gens was "Matchmates", or just "'Mates". Since they would be matched with renSimes by channels, they would be matchmates in the technical UZF-glossary sense. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (FW 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:37:03 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: buried message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline Lichtenberg wrote: > Pump bottom-water with what energy? It pumps itself! Once you have run the pipe to the bottom of the ocean, you are dealing with an essentially inexhaustible temperature gradient of some 30 deg. F, from about 65 at the top to 34 at the bottom. My thermodynamics dissolved in a cloud of rust years ago, but IIRC the pilot plant mentioned in the 30s generated some 30 kWe. > And hydroelectric is not EASY to build -- it takes a very huge underlying > (and polluting) industrial base to build a Coolie Dam project. Yes, but that's for full-blast grid distribution. What we want is cogeneration, for which hydro is dead simple. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (FW 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:12:07 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: First Contract MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The First Contract can't have collapsed during early Unity, because it is still in effect in Digen's day: UZF p. 149 (p.b. ed.): # [Digen speaking:] "Under the First Contract between the Territories, # the Tecton is responsible for controlling the --- asocial behavior # of all our Simes." Is responsible, not was responsible. Maybe a better translation of the Simelan would be "Prime Contract"? (Just like it's "passions' mastery," not "suppression of emotion".) -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (FW 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:49:43 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Request for Info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:59 AM 2/3/98 +1100, Jenn wrote: >Robyn King-Nitschke wrote: >> >> Maybe we should set up a web page detailing which books have >> been found where. Then we can have a "book exchange." > >Easiest way to do that - one which requires no special coding on anyone's >part - is for Gossamer to add a new board to the World Controller's Boards. > >Would that work? Do enough people KNOW about the boards?! They're on the new imagemap, which I have now installed on my Jacqueline/Sime~Gen page. It probably doesn't matter that some people don't know what boards _are_ in this contxt--if they like what they see on the